SB387 "Public Safety - Untraceable Firearms" - The Ban on Private Firearm Making

Slackdaddy · Jan 25, 2022

So, if a hobbyist is going to make a homemade replica of a drop block buffalo rifle,, at what point does He/She take the block of steel to the FFL to be serialized??
Or are they saying NO hobbyist made rifles/pistols after 1/1/23 ??

gwchem · Jan 25, 2022

rbird7282 · Jan 25, 2022

Ponder_MD said:
Now all we need is people who can explain it to the MGA in a coherent manner...not that this is a guarantee of a positive outcome.

It was been explained to them last year when they brought this crap up.
THEY DON'T CARE.

Ponder_MD · Jan 25, 2022

rbird7282 said:
It was been explained to them last year when they brought this crap up.
THEY DON'T CARE.

Wow. This is a hell of a corner to box citizens into.

babalou · Jan 25, 2022

funny how no one ever made their own firearms throughout our history. oh, wait.

So, serialize, it gets stolen and the serial number ground off? Guess that will never happen.

Squaregrouper · Jan 25, 2022

Ponder_MD said:
Now all we need is people who can explain it to the MGA in a coherent manner...not that this is a guarantee of a positive outcome.

Have you seen my testimony about making FTF long gun loans and sales a bigger crime than stealing long guns? It was pretty damn clear and concise; they passed the law anyway.

Brickman301 · Jan 25, 2022

Slackdaddy said:
So, if a hobbyist is going to make a homemade replica of a drop block buffalo rifle,, at what point does He/She take the block of steel to the FFL to be serialized??
Or are they saying NO hobbyist made rifles/pistols after 1/1/23 ??

Hmm, no they are saying no homemade firearms at all. Doesn’t matter if they were made after 1/1/23 or 20 years before.

Patattack88 · Jan 25, 2022

Didn’t Nevada fail in the courts when they had there “gHoST GUn” bill passed? Also WTOP had a “ GhOSt gUn” piece this morning. The memo has made its rounds to the major news outlets. Its a national attack on freedom, i wonder what other AGs have co sponsored “gHOsT GuN” bills this year.

Rocinante · Jan 25, 2022

Patattack88 said:
Didn’t Nevada fail in the courts when they had there “gHoST GUn” bill passed? Also WTOP had a “ GhOSt gUn” piece this morning. The memo has made its rounds to the major news outlets. Its a national attack on freedom, i wonder what other AGs have co sponsored “gHOsT GuN” bills this year.

iirc that was deemed unconstitutional because the law was too vague on the definition of "frame/receiver".
It's coordinated to get the public to support the erasure of rights through their propaganda outlets.

Boxcab · Jan 25, 2022

Rocinante said:
No, the proposed law states it has to be performed by an FFL (which is currently illegal under federal law).

My point: the gun is already serialized, before the law goes into effect. It is no longer an unserialized gun.

Rocinante said:
No, ATF regs state the serial has to be engraved on metal at a certain depth and size.

My point: so how does an FFL serialize this frame? There is no metal (printed using a Nylon blend).

.

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DC-W · Jan 25, 2022

Boxcab said:
My point: the gun is already serialized, before the law goes into effect. It is no longer an unserialized gun.

My point: so how does an FFL serialize this frame? There is no metal (printed using a Nylon blend).

You'd have to trash it. Serial numbers on polymers are no good because they are too easily obliterated. This is all by design.

cryptoman · Jan 25, 2022

I have a SIG and a Beretta that do not have serial numbers on the frame, the serial number is on the chassis. I have swapped frames in both pistols.

JTH20 · Jan 25, 2022

Boxcab said:
My point: the gun is already serialized, before the law goes into effect. It is no longer an unserialized gun.

My point: so how does an FFL serialize this frame? There is no metal (printed using a Nylon blend).

.

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If the gun is already serealized then the serial number cant be modified. That's federal law.

If an FFL added the prescribed serial number from this law, they'd be violating federal law.

Boxcab · Jan 25, 2022

DC-W said:
You'd have to trash it. Serial numbers on polymers are no good because they are too easily obliterated. This is all by design.

So I they post defacto make something illegal, say I must destroy it without compensation.

Hmmmm. Part of me says "Let them pass this bill and get the courts to shove it back up their arsses, while establishing precedence. "

Yeah, I know, we can't rely on the courts.

.

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Boxcab · Jan 25, 2022

JTH20 said:
If the gun is already serealized then the serial number cant be modified. That's federal law.

If an FFL added the prescribed serial number from this law, they'd be violating federal law.

That's the way I understand it.

BTW, looking for a good laser engraver...

.

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JTH20 · Jan 25, 2022

Boxcab said:
That's the way I understand it.

BTW, looking for a good laser engraver...

.

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It's by design

smokey · Jan 25, 2022

schedule 80 3/4" pipe + schedule 40 1" pipe + end cap for 1" pipe + nail = 12 gauge shotgun. Looks like according to their definition, lots of plumbers and home improvement stores are about to face some hard time.

gtodave · Jan 25, 2022

FOR the purpose of altering a certain definition of “firearm” to include a certain unfinished
4 frame or receiver; prohibiting a person from purchasing, receiving, selling, offering
5 to sell, or transferring an unfinished frame or receiver, or possessing a firearm on or
6 after a certain date, unless it is required by federal law to be, and has been, imprinted
7 with a certain number in a certain manner; requiring the Secretary of State Police
8 to suspend a certain dealer’s license if the dealer is charged with a certain crime;
9 requiring the Secretary to revoke a certain dealer’s license if the dealer is convicted
10 of a certain crime; and generally relating to firearms

This part makes it sound like they think it is Federal law to have a gun serialized...am I reading this wrong?

edit: more from the bill:

4 5–703.
5 (A) A PERSON MAY NOT PURCHASE, RECEIVE, SELL, OFFER TO SELL, OR
6 TRANSFER AN UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER UNLESS IT IS REQUIRED BY
7 FEDERAL LAW TO BE, AND HAS BEEN, IMPRINTED WITH A SERIAL NUMBER BY A
8 FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS MANUFACTURER OR FEDERALLY LICENSED
9 FIREARMS IMPORTER IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL FEDERAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS
10 APPLICABLE TO THE MANUFACTURE AND IMPORT OF FIREARMS.
11 (B) ON OR AFTER JANUARY 1, 2023, A PERSON MAY NOT POSSESS A
12 FIREARM UNLESS:
13 (1) THE FIREARM IS REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW TO BE, AND HAS
14 BEEN, IMPRINTED BY A FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS MANUFACTURER OR
15 FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS IMPORTER WITH A SERIAL NUMBER IN
16 COMPLIANCE WITH ALL FEDERAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS APPLICABLE TO THE
17 MANUFACTURE AND IMPORT OF FIREARMS; OR
18 (2) THE FIREARM HAS BEEN IMPRINTED BY A FEDERALLY LICENSED
19 FIREARMS DEALER OR OTHER FEDERAL LICENSEE AUTHORIZED TO PROVIDE
20 MARKING SERVICES WITH THE FIRST THREE AND LAST FIVE DIGITS OF THE
21 LICENSEE’S FEDERAL FIREARMS LICENSE NUMBER, FOLLOWED BY A HYPHEN, AND
22 THEN FOLLOWED BY ANOTHER NUMBER.
23 (C) A FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS DEALER OR OTHER FEDERAL
24 LICENSEE AUTHORIZED TO PROVIDE MARKING SERVICES WHO IMPRINTS A FIREARM
25 UNDER SUBSECTION (B)(2) OF THIS SECTION SHALL:
26 (1) IMPRINT THE FIREARM IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL FEDERAL LAWS
27 AND REGULATIONS APPLICABLE TO AFFIXING SERIAL NUMBERS TO FIREARMS,
28 INCLUDING:
29 (I) MINIMUM SIZE AND DEPTH REQUIREMENTS; AND
30 (II) REQUIREMENTS THAT THE NUMBERS NOT BE READILY
31 SUSCEPTIBLE TO BEING OBLITERATED, ALTERED, OR REMOVED; AND
6 SENATE BILL 387
1 (2) RETAIN RECORDS FOR ALL FIREARMS IMPRINTED IN
2 ACCORDANCE WITH ALL FEDERAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS APPLICABLE TO THE
3 SALE OF A FIREARM.

It really sounds like they think it's federal law to serialize a firearm, and that is true IF built for the purpose of sale. Home built guns aren't. I think this whole thing is moot for home built, home use guns. I'm FAR from a lawyer though.

teratos · Jan 25, 2022

If I had any homemade firearms they would already have a serial number.

Boxcab · Jan 25, 2022

teratos said:
If I had any homemade firearms they would already have a serial number.

"FMD-00001"

.

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