Gerald Ung incident in Philly

K-Romulus · Jan 21, 2010

Gerald Ung incident in Philly (VA non-res CCW)

I haven't seen a thread on this, so here goes.

Ung is a VA resident attending Temple Law School. He has a VA CCW. He was involved in a shooting against a group of unarmed guys who (to me) appear to have attacked him and his date late at night in Philly (around 2AM). Ung shot one of the attackers 6 times with what appears to be a .38.

The attacker who got shot is a 23 y/o former college lacrosse player who was out with his buddies. This guy's mom is a big-time Philly-area Republican politician. His dad is a big-shot Philly lawyer.

Ung was arrested on scene for attempted murder and "carrying a pistol without a permit." Those of us who carry in PA with non-resident permits should take note of that.

Lucky for Ung, the incident happened right outside the Philly FOX station, so everything was caught on surveillance tape.

Here is a link to the Philly FOX station page on the incident (with multiple videos)
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/Old_City_Shooting_01_17_10

From the video, it looks like the lacrosse guy and his friends were following Ung and his date down the street harassing them. The date is yelling something at the three guys while trying to walk away, and is apparently distressed.

The next camera cut shows there was some sort of scuffle involving the date. Ung draws his pistol. At that point, three aggressors spread out on line and advance on Ung, one of them starting to flank him on his right. The guy who got shot seems to have kept advancing up the middle and attempted a gun grab.

Here is some info in the Philly papers:
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/h...gun_to_save_friends_in_Old_City_shooting.html

Ung has a defense fund set up, and a Facebook support page that is currently under attack from the aggressor's buddies in the Wall and in the Discussion:
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?t...es/Gerald-Ung-is-innocent/261005949058?v=wall

Here is one good example:

Steve Riley
Yeah, I guess if some young college-age, upper class boys are acting rowdy (which wasn't the case here anyway), they deserve to be shot five times. What is the matter with you morons defending this filthy criminal????

PAFOA is also discussing the matter (33 pages!!):
http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/86076-old-city-shooting.html

gamer_jim · Jan 21, 2010

I love it how they refer to the guy who was shot as "the victim".

According to handgunlaw.us PA honors VA permits so Ung was not carrying illegally.

2flhun · Jan 21, 2010

pa does honor va permits, but philly may not.

Someone asked before about carrying in philly and i asked my uncle, who is a philly cop, about this. He flat out said that Philly plays by their own rules. The average street cop will arrest a person found to be carrying and let the courts sort it out.

it sucks, it's wrong, it's normal for philly

GUNGUY45 · Jan 21, 2010

I really wish Philadelphia would realize that it is part of Pa., not some seperate entity.
Or maybe we could sell the city to New Jersey, I'm sure they'd want it.

gamer_jim · Jan 21, 2010

2flhun said:
pa does honor va permits, but philly may not.

Someone asked before about carrying in philly and i asked my uncle, who is a philly cop, about this. He flat out said that Philly plays by their own rules. The average street cop will arrest a person found to be carrying and let the courts sort it out.

it sucks, it's wrong, it's normal for philly

No No No. PA has state pre-eminence. The only special rule in Philly is that you cannot Open Carry without a LTCF permit. Other than that they have to follow the same rules as the rest of the state. Doesn't mean cops think they have different rules and try to enforce them, but a lawyer should get it thrown out pretty quick.

http://www.examiner.com/x-35389-Pit...eemption-local-jurisdictions-ignoring-the-law

does a good job explaining it.

jonnyl · Jan 21, 2010

walking away, being chased, backing up, drawing but not firing until getting rushed. Looked clean to me.

Some of the comments on the facebook page were ridiculous.

...It is a clear cut case of excessive force; a coward using 6 bullets, an obvious intent to take life, to avoid being punched a few times.

K-Romulus · Jan 21, 2010

jonnyl said:
walking away, being chased, backing up, drawing but not firing until getting rushed. Looked clean to me.

Some of the comments on the facebook page were ridiculous.

The page supporting "Eddie" (the aggressor) has 1500+ fans. :tdown:

http://www.facebook.com/search/?q=e.../group.php?v=wall&ref=search&gid=259877188388

(though I can see how you can support his recovery without supporting his actions)

The pro-Ung page has 270 fans.

boricuamaximus · Jan 21, 2010

I wonder if Eddie will try to be a superhero in the face of a gun again...

haoleboy · Jan 21, 2010

6 shots? he needs to practice more.
I'm sorry, but if I pull a gun on a could/would be attacker and they hesitate and then charge me..........they ARE a threat to my like and or reason to believe they will cause great bodily harm. I'm sure all of the shootee's friends believe he would have just disarmed Ung. I tend to believe that if he took the gun, he wouldn't be the one in the hospital bed with bullet holes.

JSW · Jan 21, 2010

the thug comes from money and mommy and daddy are not wasting any time painting the picture that their Bully is the victim because he was just protecting everyone else. Who the hell does pullups on construction scaffolding at 0130--drunk or jock showing off. he probably swung into the couple walking by then got egged on by his friend. the video clearly show who the aggressors were.

racinghoss · Jan 21, 2010

haoleboy said:
6 shots? he needs to practice more.
I'm sorry, but if I pull a gun on a could/would be attacker and they hesitate and then charge me..........they ARE a threat to my like and or reason to believe they will cause great bodily harm. I'm sure all of the shootee's friends believe he would have just disarmed Ung. I tend to believe that if he took the gun, he wouldn't be the one in the hospital bed with bullet holes.

It sounds like he shot pretty well to me. 5 or 6 shots and 5 hits out of what presumably is a very short bbl .38 wheel gun while scuffling with the other dude. That is pretty good shooting for a trained individual, let alone someone who may not have been the beneficiary of military or LEO training. Even though it was at very close range. Shooting at a target at the range is one thing, shooting a live human being while you are shitting bricks and your pulse is racing and you are breathing heavy from the HUGE adrenaline rush is another. Not to mention that his mind was likely moving 1000 miles an hour too. I have never seen or heard of someone yelling "BOOM...HEADSHOT!!" after they have an encounter like that, either civilian, or military or LEO.

SCARCQB · Jan 21, 2010

Clean case of self- defense. The shooter and his date were actually trying to get away from these thugs. The video clearly shows that.of course he didn't deserve to get shot 5 times. He should be shot 15 times with a more effective gun as to put him out of his misery.

He got shot for being stupid. I hope he's in pain right now. Does it hurt? goood!!!!

Lawyer56 · Jan 21, 2010

Before anyone rushes to any kind of judgment in this matter, wait until "the rest of the story" comes out over time. For instance, what was said (and when) between the shooter, his GF, and the "victim" (e.g., provocation)? Had the shooter been drinking and, if so, when, where, and how much (significant due to the time of night and the location)? Did the shooter have any other recourse at any time, including fleeing (running away)? Did the shooter or his GF tell the "victim" that the shooter was armed at any time before the actual shooting (e.g., did the GF yell at the "victim" that the shooter would shoot him, mess him up, or words to the effect, knowing that the shooter was armed?)? Was there any interaction among the parties before the street scene depicted on the videos? What words were actually exchanged among the parties just before the shooting? I'm not saying that the shooting was not justified, or was justified, I'm just saying that there is way too much information that I do not have that I would need to know to make that judgment. I bet there will be unexpected (surprise) information about the matter that will come to light over the next several days.

Tankfixr · Jan 21, 2010

Ung has gun drawn and walking backward, Clown boy rushes him.

Incredible.

jaywade · Jan 21, 2010

it looks like self defense to me have to let the courts decide .... the video should be huge

alucard0822 · Jan 21, 2010

Ung is incredibly lucky that camera was there, from what I can see he is justified, if it was his word vs the thugs, he would have probably been in worse shape. In a situation where someone is facing multiple assailants, they continue to approach after the draw, it is almost certainly a deadly threat. Add retreating from the threat, and an assailant making a grab for the gun and it gets to be pretty cut and dry self defense. Who knows what was said before the incident, doesn't really matter, it is the actions caught on camera that show it to be a clear case of self defense.

clandestine · Jan 21, 2010

Im donating to the shooters defense fund.

Appears to me that the wealthy dude thought the world revolved around him, he found out that the Revolver OWNED him.

I dont wish the one that was shot a well recovery, actually I would prefer worse on him, but im sure if I said more would hurt some feelings.

I was taught to never write checks that your !ss cant cash. That little group of thugs thought their group could do whatever they wanted, and found out that not everyone just takes it. The "brave" one in the pack of thugs got what he had coming.

No man should have to retreat when attacked and its sad the criminal is being praised and the person who defended himself is likely in jail.

Im glad there was a video or the shooter would be toast.

jaywade · Jan 21, 2010

yeah after watching it again (w/ my wife) he was backing up they were moving behind him.... I can tottaly see in his mind that it was a bad thing getting worse by the second... I hope he pulls through okay

kstew · Jan 21, 2010

As long as the shooter wasn't drinking or somehow inciting the fight the video looks to be pretty cut and dried. I'd do the same thing, but I would be carrying my S&W XD40 subcompact. The night sights on it would help, and with the larger round he wouldnt live.

Infosec Guy · Jan 22, 2010

Wow. I'm glad I'm not Gerald Ung.
In all seriousness, the videos indicate that his attacker got what was coming to him.

But it just totally blows my mind that the cops would arrest a man who acted in self-defense, and then kept it together well enough to call 911 for an ambulance for his attacker. And they charged him with attempted homicide and aggravated assault? WTF?

I mean, I can understand holding him for questioning, and even confiscating the weapon as evidence. But the man not only acted in defense of his date and himself, he took action afterwards to call for assistance for his attacker.

Gerald Ung incident in Philly

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