Concealed Carry in Hershey?

Chris0nllyn said:

Well, first off, I only have my brick aka Hi-Point C9. I don't plan on making that my CC gun, so I don't really want to buy a holster for it. Eventually, I want to get either the S&W M&P Shield, or the XDs as my carry gun.

Thanks for the advice, and I plan on doing all of what you stated as far as getting acclimated with the holster, the weapon, and different draw scenarios.

Too much training is never a bad thing right?

I may bring my gun, with the OWB holster I ahve for it already, and just leave it in the car, and keep in the hotel room with us.



I will most definately be drinking, and that's my tentative plan as of now.

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If you're going to be drinking.. don't carry. I'll be drinking as well which is why once I arrive its going to be locked in the car.

I may bring my gun, with the OWB holster I ahve for it already, and just leave it in the car, and keep in the hotel room with us. I will most definately be drinking, and that's my tentative plan as of now.

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If you're planning on drinking, then without question i'd not carry for the same reason drinking and driving is not good. When you control something that you can take someone's life with, you need good judgement. Alcohol impairs judgement. When I carry, I always skip the beer with dinner and opt for the soda. You can pull over and gun up in pa when you cross the border and enjoy the ride up with your 2a rights....thenn lock it up when you plan on drinking. Personally, i'd keep it in the box as I went up to the room as handling firearms required attention to prevent a negligent discharch.

Anyway, enjoy and stay safe.

teratos said:

We ask people to respect our Second Amendment rights. Should we not, in turn, respect their rights to set their rules on their property? If their rules are "no weapons", then those rules should be followed. You would expect the same of people coming on to your own property. If you disagree that strongly, do no patronize the park. I think the "I'll carry anyway" attitude is a poor one, and reflects poorly on the gun community.

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Agreed...

smokey0118 said:

If you're planning on drinking, then without question i'd not carry for the same reason drinking and driving is not good. When you control something that you can take someone's life with, you need good judgement. Alcohol impairs judgement. When I carry, I always skip the beer with dinner and opt for the soda. You can pull over and gun up in pa when you cross the border and enjoy the ride up with your 2a rights....thenn lock it up when you plan on drinking. Personally, i'd keep it in the box as I went up to the room as handling firearms required attention to prevent a negligent discharch.

Anyway, enjoy and stay safe.

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Exactly my plan. Thanks fellas!

lilJohn690 said:

If you're going to be drinking.. don't carry. I'll be drinking as well which is why once I arrive its going to be locked in the car.

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Meet up and get a beer?

teratos said:

We ask people to respect our Second Amendment rights. Should we not, in turn, respect their rights to set their rules on their property? If their rules are "no weapons", then those rules should be followed. You would expect the same of people coming on to your own property. If you disagree that strongly, do no patronize the park. I think the "I'll carry anyway" attitude is a poor one, and reflects poorly on the gun community.

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While I agree with you on the need to be courteous and thoughtful; as it pertains to PA Law there is no legal liability.

During my Utah CCW Class, the instructor made a interesting comment. He stated that he will not carry inside of another mans house. He felt it was disrespectful, and he gave a "Head of Household" reasoning. (Not going to get into the details here) I've started thinking about it, and I think I agree with him.

Chris0nllyn said:

Exactly my plan. Thanks fellas!

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In Maryland, you are not allowed ANY alcohol while carrying. This is not the case in PA. I'm not advocating that you do drink and carry, but you can have a few and not get arrested. There are frequent OC get togethers up here that happen at bars or restaurants that serve.

Robert said:

While I agree with you on the need to be courteous and thoughtful; as it pertains to PA Law there is no legal liability.

During my Utah CCW Class, the instructor made a interesting comment. He stated that he will not carry inside of another mans house. He felt it was disrespectful, and he gave a "Head of Household" reasoning. (Not going to get into the details here) I've started thinking about it, and I think I agree with him.

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It is all about respect. I made no argument about the law. I expect the rules of my home to be followed by guests and in turn, I respect the rules of a house/business where I am a guest.

Chris0nllyn said:

Meet up and get a beer?

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Sure why not Send me a PM.

teratos said:

It is all about respect. I made no argument about the law. I expect the rules of my home to be followed by guests and in turn, I respect the rules of a house/business where I am a guest.

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Fair enough

teratos said:

It is all about respect. I made no argument about the law. I expect the rules of my home to be followed by guests and in turn, I respect the rules of a house/business where I am a guest.

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Teratos brings up a good point and an ethical concern. First, there's the issue of personal safety and why one carries in the first place. Then, the issue of private property--the owner has the right to make the rules. His point is valid and each person has to decide what is most important for themselves and family in deciding to carry if they go to Hershey Park or any public venue for that matter.

Another point I like to bring up is the liability issue. Many times those signs are placed to limit the facility's liability. If they really didn't want anyone with weapons inside the park they would scan everyone. The signs are there to shift liability from them to the individual in case of a problem. Hence, they only request you leave the park if they discover you have a weapon--not calling the police, charging you with crimes, etc. if you leave peacefully. Just MHO.

Docster said:

Teratos brings up a good point and an ethical concern. First, there's the issue of personal safety and why one carries in the first place. Then, the issue of private property--the owner has the right to make the rules. His point is valid and each person has to decide what is most important for themselves and family in deciding to carry if they go to Hershey Park or any public venue for that matter.

Another point I like to bring up is the liability issue. Many times those signs are placed to limit the facility's liability. If they really didn't want anyone with weapons inside the park they would scan everyone. The signs are there to shift liability from them to the individual in case of a problem. Hence, they only request you leave the park if they discover you have a weapon--not calling the police, charging you with crimes, etc. if you leave peacefully. Just MHO.

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I see it as 2 rights at odds, a person's right to bear arms and personal defense, aggainst another person or buisnesses right to dictate what they do and don't allow on private property. One longstanding facet of law is the difference between types of private property, a residence has the highest degree of property rights, a private buisness a little less, and a buisness open to the public, even less. There is also the legal deffinition of your right to be sucure in your person and property. You can have a situation where a buisness wants to search someone, detain them, or confiscate their property, either on foot, or a car in a parking lot. For the most part the courts have found an individual's right to be secure in their person or vehicle trumps a buisness ability to search them without cause to belive that a crime is being commited aggainst the buisness. In modern times things like the Americans with Disibilities act, OSHA, FDA, equal opportunity, anti discrimination laws and plenty of other laws may be over-reaching, but go to show the legal and public view of differences in property rights as a property and buisness interacts more and more with the public, and the fact that a property owner does not have the right to do whatever they want whenever they want.

The issue is far from clear cut, what is "respectful" to a property owner, what is a "right" of a customer or buisness, and where the law stands in resolving these conflicts. Everyone has to find a personal moral line that corresponds with their values, the law, and societal morality. For me, A residence has the highest degree of property rights, and the greatest need for respect being the owner more than likely has invited me there, so I would not carry without at least implied consent, thing is everyone I visit already knows I carry, and either don't care, or carry themselves, I won't visit someone's house where I don't know the owner, so this isn't much of an issue. I firmly belive that my vehicle is my property, so whatever I choose to keep in it is not the concern of the owner of a parking lot or parking garage, they can ask me to leave, and I will comply, they can ask to search it, and I will tell them to go F-themselves. SOme buisnesses use metal detectors or searches, if it looks like they will discover my weapon, then I have to decide weither I want to put my weapon in the car(still technically in violation of their policy and "property rights") or just leave, some have secure storage for customers who carry, and can be another option. PA law allows me to practice my right to bear arms to effectively defend myself, and does not give any legal weight to a buisness to prohibit that on their property, they do allow buisnesses to ask that a person leaves for most any reason, and the law will enforce that right if a person refuses to leave. I'm fine with this, and I don't have a moral objection to either carrying into a buisness open to the public aggainst their policy, or the buisness asking me to leave if I am discovered in violation of their policy.

There is no law against carrying at Hershey. The restriction is their POLICY. A policy does not have any force in law. If they ask you to leave, and you refuse, then you have a trespassing violation. Many times the Bill of Rights are not applied at/on private property, this would be one. ie Free Speech will not apply if you call you boss an A-hole while at work...you'll be fired. You won't go to jail, but there are consequences.

teratos said:

We ask people to respect our Second Amendment rights. Should we not, in turn, respect their rights to set their rules on their property? If their rules are "no weapons", then those rules should be followed. You would expect the same of people coming on to your own property. If you disagree that strongly, do no patronize the park. I think the "I'll carry anyway" attitude is a poor one, and reflects poorly on the gun community.

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+1

xd40c said:

There is no law against carrying at Hershey. The restriction is their POLICY. A policy does not have any force in law. If they ask you to leave, and you refuse, then you have a trespassing violation. Many times the Bill of Rights are not applied at/on private property, this would be one. ie Free Speech will not apply if you call you boss an A-hole while at work...you'll be fired. You won't go to jail, but there are consequences.

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Again, it is not about the law it is about respecting the wishes of the property owner. You expect people to behave in a certain manner when they are in your home, and since you are also a business owner you probably have certain expectations about how they should behave in your business. If you have strong objections to not being able to carry on private property, don't go there. This is a common courtesy issue.

I can respect the wishes of a property owner, but this is a BUSINESS, that is, in existence to conduct business in a non-discriminatory fashion and make a profit. I think Alucard delineates the differences between personal property and business property quite nicely. They may make policies. Individual rights for safety, in many minds, may trump business policies.

Do you expect the property owner to be responsible for your safety? If something criminal does happen (to you), will you sue the property owner for damages?

Docster said:

I can respect the wishes of a property owner, but this is a BUSINESS, that is, in existence to conduct business in a non-discriminatory fashion and make a profit. I think Alucard delineates the differences between personal property and business property quite nicely. They may make policies. Individual rights for safety, in many minds, may trump business policies.

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We can agree to disagree. I would prefer to see Hershey Park have a policy allowing CCW for those allowed. I also respect their policies.

head on over to the PAFOA website, it is covered in depth over at that forum. There are a few threads about it...