Bought ~84 Acres

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  • traveller

    The one with two L
    Nov 26, 2010
    18,266
    variable
    When we purchased our acreage up near MPC, we got timber and mineral rights thanks to the work of the previous owners who were going to build the ski resort. Not that there would be any gas drilling up on a mountainside.

    If there is gas, they will drill wherever it suits them. A business owner I know in PA was forced to allow the leaseholder to drill right between two of his buildings. That's where the geologist told them to drill, so that's where the well went.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    I can't go too deep into it.

    We thought the property was empty because the tenant was removed and in prison. Turns out they let others stay there. Not enough for adverse possession, hopefully, but I need to do some research.
     

    TWM

    Member
    Jul 4, 2013
    51
    Howard Co
    I can't go too deep into it.

    We thought the property was empty because the tenant was removed and in prison. Turns out they let others stay there. Not enough for adverse possession, hopefully, but I need to do some research.

    Yikes....good luck. Hope it works out for you.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    I can't go too deep into it.

    We thought the property was empty because the tenant was removed and in prison. Turns out they let others stay there. Not enough for adverse possession, hopefully, but I need to do some research.

    Adverse possession in WV takes 10 years, the entity has to open about living there (receiving mail at the address, not hiding their presence from the landowner, etc). They must occupy the land for the whole ten years, and may not make the possession claim with anyone else. If they leave for even a couple of days at a time, the clock resets, and they can't share possession with anyone else. If they're living there with others (non-family, other squatters, etc.) the claim is invalid. I am not a lawyer, but I also believe that the clock starts all over again if the property is sold to someone. For example, they could have lived there for 9 years and 364 days and then you bought the property, well, guess what, that's 9 years and 364 days wiped off the clock, they're back to day one.

    As for removing them, if you can't get them to leave on their own, you can do a judicial eviction (usually takes 30-90 days). Alternatively, you can talk to the local law enforcement and see if trespassing them is possible once they leave the property (for any reason) and attempt to return. If there's no lease signed or other paperwork, that makes this option much easier.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    Adverse possession in WV takes 10 years, the entity has to open about living there (receiving mail at the address, not hiding their presence from the landowner, etc). They must occupy the land for the whole ten years, and may not make the possession claim with anyone else. If they leave for even a couple of days at a time, the clock resets, and they can't share possession with anyone else. If they're living there with others (non-family, other squatters, etc.) the claim is invalid. I am not a lawyer, but I also believe that the clock starts all over again if the property is sold to someone. For example, they could have lived there for 9 years and 364 days and then you bought the property, well, guess what, that's 9 years and 364 days wiped off the clock, they're back to day one.

    As for removing them, if you can't get them to leave on their own, you can do a judicial eviction (usually takes 30-90 days). Alternatively, you can talk to the local law enforcement and see if trespassing them is possible once they leave the property (for any reason) and attempt to return. If there's no lease signed or other paperwork, that makes this option much easier.

    Thanks. Since we haven't bought yet, I'm doing research into that what you wrote. Definitely have a path to evict if we go that way, as the 30+ year tenants aren't the ones there now, just friends.

    We'll be tearing down the current house, so if it works, it works. No reason to rush, we can do it the right way.
     

    bcr229

    FFL/SOT
    Jul 15, 2011
    1,334
    Inwood, WV
    Speaking as a WV resident, you need to make this the seller's problem. Property should be turned over untenanted. Be prepared to live on it yourself or have someone you trust camp out on it 24/7 until the house is gone to ensure the squatters don't return after closing.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    Speaking as a WV resident, you need to make this the seller's problem. Property should be turned over untenanted. Be prepared to live on it yourself or have someone you trust camp out on it 24/7 until the house is gone to ensure the squatters don't return after closing.

    That's not going to happen. The seller has zero interest in the property, and would let it go to the state over nonpayment of taxes.

    I'm using this as an opportunity to get a property for a tiny fraction of what it's worth, but we need to be the ones putting in the work. The squatters can't squat if I bulldoze the house the day eviction comes through.
     

    traveller

    The one with two L
    Nov 26, 2010
    18,266
    variable
    Speaking as a WV resident, you need to make this the seller's problem. Property should be turned over untenanted. Be prepared to live on it yourself or have someone you trust camp out on it 24/7 until the house is gone to ensure the squatters don't return after closing.

    The truck you take to the closing should tow a trailer with an excavator on it.....





    and yes, I know, you can't do that. But the next stop after the closing is the courthouse to file the judicial eviction.
    (it may actually be cheaper meet with the squatter $1000 cash in hand and offer it to him if he is gone the next day)
     

    FrankOceanXray

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 29, 2008
    12,028
    That's not going to happen. The seller has zero interest in the property, and would let it go to the state over nonpayment of taxes.

    I'm using this as an opportunity to get a property for a tiny fraction of what it's worth, but we need to be the ones putting in the work. The squatters can't squat if I bulldoze the house the day eviction comes through.

    I'd agree with that sentiment but the courts may not. You're dealing with people willing to squat. What's to say they don't come back? Even if the house isn't there... They know the way back "home".

    Another thread for those searching for new properties mentioned concern for familial issues. Uncle Jake sold the land but the family still considers it their land that was passed down to Uncle Jake until he turned his back on the family .. well now that land has a stigma. Never will be anyone's land but... Legally not correct. But police ain't everywhere. Deputies take a while to respond and may have biases of their own. Courts are slow and sometimes can't get back what you may want. You are potentially dealing with a very off the beaten path challenge.

    Reminds me of some recent reading where land was purchased in SW VA. The newcomers, good hearted folks they were, were greatest with a cross and haybale burning in their driveway. This was from the local KKK. Seems the newcomers were thought of as outsiders, communists. Sixty years later, they still have issues with some surrounding families.

    It is doable. Be mindful of going in ready to teach people, make them what you want and need. Freedom is a lovely thing that can be hard to define, qualify.

    I wish you well.
     

    TWM

    Member
    Jul 4, 2013
    51
    Howard Co
    I'd agree with that sentiment but the courts may not. You're dealing with people willing to squat. What's to say they don't come back? Even if the house isn't there... They know the way back "home".

    Another thread for those searching for new properties mentioned concern for familial issues. Uncle Jake sold the land but the family still considers it their land that was passed down to Uncle Jake until he turned his back on the family .. well now that land has a stigma. Never will be anyone's land but... Legally not correct. But police ain't everywhere. Deputies take a while to respond and may have biases of their own. Courts are slow and sometimes can't get back what you may want. You are potentially dealing with a very off the beaten path challenge.

    Reminds me of some recent reading where land was purchased in SW VA. The newcomers, good hearted folks they were, were greatest with a cross and haybale burning in their driveway. This was from the local KKK. Seems the newcomers were thought of as outsiders, communists. Sixty years later, they still have issues with some surrounding families.

    It is doable. Be mindful of going in ready to teach people, make them what you want and need. Freedom is a lovely thing that can be hard to define, qualify.

    I wish you well.

    +1
    We were lucky that original family members of the land we purchased are still around but not interested in the land. Even though their old family homestead house (uninhabitable) is still on standing on our property, they’ve all seemed happy to see a new family enjoying the land. Could have easily gone the wrong direction, especially since the old family cemetery is also landlocked by our property and deeded to one of the remaining family members. But fortunately everyone has been nice and welcoming.

    Wish you the best of luck!
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    I'd agree with that sentiment but the courts may not. You're dealing with people willing to squat. What's to say they don't come back? Even if the house isn't there... They know the way back "home".

    Another thread for those searching for new properties mentioned concern for familial issues. Uncle Jake sold the land but the family still considers it their land that was passed down to Uncle Jake until he turned his back on the family .. well now that land has a stigma. Never will be anyone's land but... Legally not correct. But police ain't everywhere. Deputies take a while to respond and may have biases of their own. Courts are slow and sometimes can't get back what you may want. You are potentially dealing with a very off the beaten path challenge.

    Reminds me of some recent reading where land was purchased in SW VA. The newcomers, good hearted folks they were, were greatest with a cross and haybale burning in their driveway. This was from the local KKK. Seems the newcomers were thought of as outsiders, communists. Sixty years later, they still have issues with some surrounding families.

    It is doable. Be mindful of going in ready to teach people, make them what you want and need. Freedom is a lovely thing that can be hard to define, qualify.

    I wish you well.

    I hear everything you're saying about treading lightly. It's all part of the math as to whether it's worth it.

    Of the 8 houses in the vicinity, nearly all are friendly to me and want to see these squatters go.

    The squatters aren't the longtime residents. Those folks are out of the picture for now. The squatters are just druggie friends, who we think will move on to their next target given no other options.

    It'll be a year or so between us bulldozing the house and building our cabin. If we get to that point. I don't see these people buying tents and living in the yard in that time.
     

    FrankOceanXray

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 29, 2008
    12,028
    I hear everything you're saying about treading lightly. It's all part of the math as to whether it's worth it.

    Of the 8 houses in the vicinity, nearly all are friendly to me and want to see these squatters go.

    The squatters aren't the longtime residents. Those folks are out of the picture for now. The squatters are just druggie friends, who we think will move on to their next target given no other options.

    It'll be a year or so between us bulldozing the house and building our cabin. If we get to that point. I don't see these people buying tents and living in the yard in that time.


    Awesome. I'm glad to hear there is some good chance of you scoring the property. Get a lawyer involved for sure, just someone to comb over the finer parts and make sure you are set.
     

    traveller

    The one with two L
    Nov 26, 2010
    18,266
    variable
    Adverse possession in WV takes 10 years, the entity has to open about living there (receiving mail at the address, not hiding their presence from the landowner, etc). They must occupy the land for the whole ten years, and may not make the possession claim with anyone else. If they leave for even a couple of days at a time, the clock resets, and they can't share possession with anyone else. If they're living there with others (non-family, other squatters, etc.) the claim is invalid. I am not a lawyer, but I also believe that the clock starts all over again if the property is sold to someone. For example, they could have lived there for 9 years and 364 days and then you bought the property, well, guess what, that's 9 years and 364 days wiped off the clock, they're back to day one.

    From talking to a real estate lawyer some years back, it is my understanding that successful adverse possession claims by genuine squatters (or by people who were tenants at one point but overstayed their welcome) are extremely uncommon.

    What is more common is that someone purchases a property, receives a deed, from the seller, occupies the property, improves the property, pays taxes, receives mail etc. 25 years in, someone who was cut out of the deal back when the sale happened comes in claims that no legal transfer of title has taken place* and tries to kick the buyer off the property. In that case, even though maybe there was a problem with the transfer of title, the fact that the buyer openly lived on the property as 'his' and was never challenged may allow him to succeed with a adverse possession claim.

    Guarding against that particular risk is what title insurance is for. What you pay for is the insurance companies title investigator to make a judgement on whether somewhere in the chain of ownership could come back and make a title claim.




    * e.g. because the estate administrators letter of appointment had expired, the will was found invalid, the deed was never recorded at the courthouse....
     

    bcr229

    FFL/SOT
    Jul 15, 2011
    1,334
    Inwood, WV
    It'll be a year or so between us bulldozing the house and building our cabin. If we get to that point. I don't see these people buying tents and living in the yard in that time.
    You could also approach the local fire department about doing a controlled/training burn of the structure, unless you're looking at reclaiming lumber.

    It gets a bit cold and snowy to be living in tents long-term.
     

    FrankOceanXray

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 29, 2008
    12,028
    You could also approach the local fire department about doing a controlled/training burn of the structure, unless you're looking at reclaiming lumber.

    It gets a bit cold and snowy to be living in tents long-term.

    Do VFDs still do this? Seems like such great training but I only ever heard of it and always seemed like that was before..not today..

    And that was twenty years ago.
     

    traveller

    The one with two L
    Nov 26, 2010
    18,266
    variable
    Do VFDs still do this? Seems like such great training but I only ever heard of it and always seemed like that was before..not today..

    And that was twenty years ago.

    We still do. Some states restrict how many burn houses you can do in a year, but MD is not (yet) one of them.

    There are some safety rules you have to follow and it takes some time to prep the building, and yes its great training.
     

    tallen702

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 3, 2012
    5,102
    In the boonies of MoCo
    Do VFDs still do this? Seems like such great training but I only ever heard of it and always seemed like that was before..not today..

    And that was twenty years ago.

    Yes, they do in most WV counties outside of a few. That's how the family that bought our old farm did away with the two mobile homes that were on the property from the folks who bought it from us. And those folks, they did a burn on the OG farmhouse that was there but too far gone.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    Update.

    My buddy has more time and money than myself, and is taking up the cause. We heard from a lawyer and there's some risk involved. So I'm hesitant, but he's willing to gamble. We'll see what happens in the next year or so.
     

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