Single Stage Reloading Startup Items

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  • DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Just a note and would like some input. I have changed the layout, organized the items into groups, and created/labeled sections to make reference easier. Let me know if I should change the layout, organization, or section labels. If I have put something in the wrong place, let me know and I''l move it to the correct place.
     

    Traveler

    Lighten up Francis
    Jan 18, 2013
    8,227
    AA County
    Sorry, but there is a big difference between CALIPERS and MICROMETERS.

    A beginning reloader will not know the difference.

    IMO, NEITHER is required to start reloading, but if you are going to get one, get CALIPERS first. They will do most of what you need in reloading.

    As I pointed out, I loaded many thousands of rounds over many years without either one. Then I got calipers, and used them exclusively for many more years.

    I just recently added a micrometer to the reloading bench, but to set up neck sizing bushing dies setups, which are WAY beyond a beginning reloader.

    And, IMO, telling a beginning reloaded they need things that they will likely not use for years, is not doing a service.

    I personally would not consider reloading high pressure cartridges like 9mm and .40 sw without a set of calipers. COAL is very important on these cartridges. I agree with you on the micrometer.
     

    Traveler

    Lighten up Francis
    Jan 18, 2013
    8,227
    AA County
    DA, the format change helps. I am not sure how it looks on mobile. A bit more bold for sections and bigger fonts for major sections might help.
     

    Traveler

    Lighten up Francis
    Jan 18, 2013
    8,227
    AA County
    My understanding is that carbide rifle dies are primarily good if you reload a lot of rounds. You have to use lube on both steel and carbide rifle dies, so for a low volume re-loader, carbide is not as important. I do see pistol consistently recommended to just go carbide.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,278
    HoCo
    Should you note that case trimmer may not be needed for handgun ammo w/o a shoulder?
    Someone told me this once and although I'm new this year to reloading, I've yet to have to trim a handgun case. (except my Luger to MaK conversions of course).
     

    Overboost44

    6th gear
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 10, 2013
    6,619
    Kent Island
    Just a note and would like some input. I have changed the layout, organized the items into groups, and created/labeled sections to make reference easier. Let me know if I should change the layout, organization, or section labels. If I have put something in the wrong place, let me know and I''l move it to the correct place.

    DA, This is great work and I thank you for the info. I had never considered Forster before, but the reviews make it very likely the way I will go.

    Below are a few posts that I found helpful and think you could find a way to include them into the OP.

    Great write up for the new reloader.

    I'd like to add the following:

    For the beginner:
    - Powder Charging: If you're looking for centerfire accuracy, one of the variables you have the most control over is powder charge accuracy. I would recommend a trickler (brand doesn't really matter). Basically you set your powder measure to throw light and "trickle" up by individual grain/ball of powder. Much slower than just throwing the charge, but WAY more consistent. And consistent = accurate.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/317787/rcbs-powder-trickler

    - Case Prep: Lots of voodoo science here, but one of the steps that I've personally seen a slight amount of consistency increase from is deburring. Sinclair makes a nice tool for this. Basically, when the brass is manufactured the primer hole is punched and leaves a little tab on the inside of the case. This can lead to small inconsistencies in powder ignition. This tool removes the little brass tab. Not all brass needs this, as some "high end" brass has the primer hole drilled instead of punched.

    http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...ersal-flashhole-deburring-tool-prod34127.aspx

    I like a press mounted collet bullet puller. I use the RCBS, but there are others. I have a Lee Hand Press (no longer made) for the puller.

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/680804/rcbs-collet-bullet-puller

    The press mounted pocket swager from RCBS works well for me. Much cheaper than the bench mounted swagers from Dillon and RCBS:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235832/rcbs-primer-pocket-swager-combo-2

    I'm not trying to sound like a shill for RCBS, but I really like their Auto Prime:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/457599/rcbs-automatic-bench-priming-tool

    Most of my dies are Redding. Redding offers a micrometer seater than can be added to many seating dies:

    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/76...30-06-springfield-300-winchester-short-magnum

    I think this is the finest manual trimmer made. It's the Sinclair Ultimate Trimmer, based on the LE Wilson trimmer. I use mine with the drill attachment:

    http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...air-stainless-ultimate-trimmer-prod39292.aspx

    LE Wilson Cage gauges are the best. Headspace and Trim Length, Max Cartridge, Length Only.

    http://www.sinclairintl.com/search/index.htm?k=Wilson+Case+Gauge&ksubmit=y

    For swaged primer pockets. I found the RCBS press swage system to be a PITA.

    I preferred reaming the primer pockets. But that can literally be a pain in the hands if you are doing a lot of cases (more than a few hundred). At that point, the Dillon bench swager is WELL worth the price. I have done thousands of cases my my Dillon 600.

    And BTW, you do not need to use all the same brand dies when reloading a given cartridge. You can have a Lee Universal Decapper, then an RCBS sizer, a Redding seater, and a Lee Factory Crimp die.

    So pick a good set of dies (RCBS, Lee, Lyman, Redding, Hornady, Dillon, Whidden) to start, then as you see what YOU need, add individual dies to so that.

    As for trickling every charge, it depends a lot on what powder you will be using. For an extruded (stick) powder, a powder measure will not be very consistant. With a flake of ball powder, a measure can throw charge after charge that is dead nuts on.

    And like everything else, it depends on what YOU need. For general shooting, I just use a measure. For my precision rifle rounds, I use an RCBS ChargeMaster, which is an automatic powder dispenser and electronic scale. Set the desired charge and it measures that charge again and again and again. But it is a $290 piece of equipment, and only needed if you are loading a LOT of precision rounds using an extruded powder. NOT typical need for a beginner.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    DA, This is great work and I thank you for the info. I had never considered Forster before, but the reviews make it very likely the way I will go.

    Below are a few posts that I found helpful and think you could find a way to include them into the OP.

    As soon as I get to a computer I'll take care of it and update the OP. A lot of things that are being recommended beyond the bare minimums may not be needed until much later, if at all. Keep the ideas/suggestions coming.

    I may make a second post just for more stuff after I hit 30000 characters in the OP. When that happens I'll need a admin/mod to move it to become the 2nd post in the thread.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Should you note that case trimmer may not be needed for handgun ammo w/o a shoulder?
    Someone told me this once and although I'm new this year to reloading, I've yet to have to trim a handgun case. (except my Luger to MaK conversions of course).

    I would say IS NOT NEEDED.

    I have never trimmed a straight wall pistol case. And I have loaded some of them over 10 times. Straight wall cases just don't stretch much if any.

    And agreed about the dies. For straight wall pistol, get carbide. For rifle, unless you are loading as a job, steel dies are fine. I have loaded thousands of rounds with basic RCBS .223 dies. Just clean the cases before sizing, and lube properly.

    I prefer Dillon spray lube. You can make your own using liquid lanolin and 91 - 99% isopropyl alcohol. 9 -10 parts alcohol to 1 part lanolin. Make sure you get pure lanolin, not the mixture of lanolin and other oils.
     

    rico903

    Ultimate Member
    May 2, 2011
    8,802
    Forester is a big name in the precision shooting world. Their coax press is well received and thought of.

    But overkill for someone getting started.

    Their dies are very nice, but again, later, IF you need them. But up there with Redding competition dies and Whidden and such.

    Price and different action were what I was concerned about but as everyone here says "buy once, cry once" if it is a good press I'd imagine it would last a lifetime and you wouldn't have to upgrade.
     

    SneakySh0rty

    Active Member
    Aug 22, 2013
    608
    Pasadena
    How about safety glasses when handling primers, or for anything that can fly up. Also, how about the different choices of tumblers? Like Vibration tumblers, rotary rock tumblers or even ultrasonic cleaners? Perhaps other can chime in with the effectiveness of different case cleaning systems and even media choices.


    im just beginning to reload. Still tumbling, de-capping, re-sizing, swaging 1500 LC brass.

    I wish I had this list when I started piecing together my start up kit. But, looking through the list, it seems ive collected a good piece of the necessary hardware.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    How about safety glasses when handling primers, or for anything that can fly up. Also, how about the different choices of tumblers? Like Vibration tumblers, rotary rock tumblers or even ultrasonic cleaners? Perhaps other can chime in with the effectiveness of different case cleaning systems and even media choices.


    im just beginning to reload. Still tumbling, de-capping, re-sizing, swaging 1500 LC brass.

    I wish I had this list when I started piecing together my start up kit. But, looking through the list, it seems ive collected a good piece of the necessary hardware.

    No on the safety glasses. If somebody wants to reload with/without as pair of safety glasses on, it is their choice.

    I have a section on the tumblers. No need to confuse newbies over the minute differences between each type. Hence why I told them to check the reviews first.

    Glad you like it keep checking back in on the OP from time to time, due to it being a living post.
     

    rico903

    Ultimate Member
    May 2, 2011
    8,802
    Because I don't know what your experience with reloading is, would you be willing to tell me where I can make improvements in the organization/layout/format of the OP?

    I'm just getting started getting the needed things together which is why I found your post so good. For the record, I bought a tumbler and media, and a hand depriming tool and hand primer, so just getting ready to reload soon I hope. The hand deprimer came highly recommended by a friend who reloads A LOT and I have to say I enjoy being able to sit on the couch and deprime, and prime. Less time sitting at a press for me is better, but I don't expect to reload 1,000s of rounds either.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Price and different action were what I was concerned about but as everyone here says "buy once, cry once" if it is a good press I'd imagine it would last a lifetime and you wouldn't have to upgrade.

    Possibly, but MANY people shoot very accurate loads produced on basic RCBS/Lyman/Lee presses.

    I am not sure the Forester makes sense as a first press.

    And if I were to get one, I would still want a basic single stage to beat one, like pulling bullets or depriming mil brass or similar.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Actually talking about the different tumblers IS a good idea for newbies.

    The primary purpose for a tumbler is to clean the cases before reloading. Any dirt or grit on the cases can scratch the cases or WORSE, scratch your dies. You really should clean them first.

    You can also use them to remove case lube after sizing. Even though some lubes say they are safe, I prefer to remove the lube before loading.

    The secondary purpose is to make shiny polished brass. If you want that, you can just run longer or use SS pins (below).

    Vibratory Tumblers - these are like they say, they vibrate. The shape of the bowl and the vibrations cause the media and the cases to move around in the bowl cleaning the cases. Typical media is based on corn cob or walnut hulls. Corn cob is more gentle, walnut hulls a bit more aggressive. The one really nice thing about vibratory is, you CAN tumble loaded rounds. When I load bulk .223 on my Dillon, I tumble the loaded rounds to remove the case lube.

    Also, with a vibratory tumbler, you can leave the lid off, reach in and grab a case every so often to see if they are done or need more time.

    I prefer a vibratory tumbler. A media separator will speed things up in separating the cases from the tumbling media.

    Rotary Tumblers - These have a drum that rotates horizontally. They can use the same media as the vibratory, or they can use stainless steel pins with water. They clean more aggressively than a vibratory tumbler. It is typically NOT recommended to tumble loaded rounds in one. You also have to stop the tumbler to check the progress.

    Using stainless steel pins and water, you can quickly clean and polish cases to a higher shine than new. If you like REALLY shiny brass, this is the way to go. You do have to deal with getting the pins out and then drying the brass, inside and out, before loading. And typically not a good idea to wet tumble loaded rounds.

    Also, not as convenient for tumbled sized cases to remove the lube. I would not get rid of my vibratory tumbler if I decided to go SS pins, I would keep both.

    Ultrasonic Cleaners - These are wet systems that generate ultrasonic waves in the liquid. The ultrasonic sound waves cause microscopic bubbles to be created on the surface of items, which then collapse, causing the cleaning action. Like SS pins with water, you have to dry the cases afterwards. And not the best for removing lube.

    But nice to have around, your wife will like it to clean her jewelry. Not the best for polishing cases to a high shine.

    Chemical Cleaners - There are various cleaners that you add to water to clean and shine cases. I am not a big fan, as there could be some changes in the brass from the chemicals.

    Detergent and Water - Since the main reason is to remove dirt and grit, you can simply wash with dishwashing detergent and water. You do have to dry after cleaning. But pretty cheap way when you get started. :)
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Actually talking about the different tumblers IS a good idea for newbies.

    The primary purpose for a tumbler is to clean the cases before reloading. Any dirt or grit on the cases can scratch the cases or WORSE, scratch your dies. You really should clean them first.

    You can also use them to remove case lube after sizing. Even though some lubes say they are safe, I prefer to remove the lube before loading.

    The secondary purpose is to make shiny polished brass. If you want that, you can just run longer or use SS pins (below).

    Vibratory Tumblers - these are like they say, they vibrate. The shape of the bowl and the vibrations cause the media and the cases to move around in the bowl cleaning the cases. Typical media is based on corn cob or walnut hulls. Corn cob is more gentle, walnut hulls a bit more aggressive. The one really nice thing about vibratory is, you CAN tumble loaded rounds. When I load bulk .223 on my Dillon, I tumble the loaded rounds to remove the case lube.

    Also, with a vibratory tumbler, you can leave the lid off, reach in and grab a case every so often to see if they are done or need more time.

    I prefer a vibratory tumbler. A media separator will speed things up in separating the cases from the tumbling media.

    Rotary Tumblers - These have a drum that rotates horizontally. They can use the same media as the vibratory, or they can use stainless steel pins with water. They clean more aggressively than a vibratory tumbler. It is typically NOT recommended to tumble loaded rounds in one. You also have to stop the tumbler to check the progress.

    Using stainless steel pins and water, you can quickly clean and polish cases to a higher shine than new. If you like REALLY shiny brass, this is the way to go. You do have to deal with getting the pins out and then drying the brass, inside and out, before loading. And typically not a good idea to wet tumble loaded rounds.

    Also, not as convenient for tumbled sized cases to remove the lube. I would not get rid of my vibratory tumbler if I decided to go SS pins, I would keep both.

    Ultrasonic Cleaners - These are wet systems that generate ultrasonic waves in the liquid. The ultrasonic sound waves cause microscopic bubbles to be created on the surface of items, which then collapse, causing the cleaning action. Like SS pins with water, you have to dry the cases afterwards. And not the best for removing lube.

    But nice to have around, your wife will like it to clean her jewelry. Not the best for polishing cases to a high shine.

    Chemical Cleaners - There are various cleaners that you add to water to clean and shine cases. I am not a big fan, as there could be some changes in the brass from the chemicals.

    Detergent and Water - Since the main reason is to remove dirt and grit, you can simply wash with dishwashing detergent and water. You do have to dry after cleaning. But pretty cheap way when you get started. :)

    Screw it.

    Are you ok with me doing a copy/pate of this to the OP, or should I create a new thread dedicated to just tumblers?
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    I'm just getting started getting the needed things together which is why I found your post so good. For the record, I bought a tumbler and media, and a hand depriming tool and hand primer, so just getting ready to reload soon I hope. The hand deprimer came highly recommended by a friend who reloads A LOT and I have to say I enjoy being able to sit on the couch and deprime, and prime. Less time sitting at a press for me is better, but I don't expect to reload 1,000s of rounds either.

    It gives you something to do when the Ravens/Redskins/Capitals/team of choice is losing during football/hockey season, eh? :lol2:

    In all seriousness though, let me know which one you have and are using, should you want me to specifically mention it in the OP.
     

    capac2727

    Member
    Aug 23, 2012
    53
    Parkville, MD
    Thanks for taking the time and effort to put this together. I've only really been shooting seriously for a few years and this site and it's members have been an incredible source for any info you could ever need about shooting in general but particularly shooting in Marylandistan. Thanks again!! :-)
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Thanks for taking the time and effort to put this together. I've only really been shooting seriously for a few years and this site and it's members have been an incredible source for any info you could ever need about shooting in general but particularly shooting in Marylandistan. Thanks again!! :-)

    You're welcome. I didn't do it for fame and glory, I did it because a member in another thread asked for something like this to be created. Just like the other sticky in the reloading section, I'm just trying to share the knowledge that I have, in the hopes that it helps somebody make an informed decision about reloading. Let me know if you think I missed anything.
     

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