AR-15 vs Carbine for Rifle Noob

DutchV · Dec 29, 2015

Here's my take on it: A 5.56 AR is much more useful than a 9mm in any variety. A 5.56 lets you work on marksmanship skills at rifle distances, and possibly do some hunting. 9mm is not well suited for either role.

A 9mm AR is cool, but is not as useful as one in 5.56. Your first rifle should not be neutered.

clandestine · Dec 29, 2015

aebsr said:
Can I ask why?

If you mean why listen to me? You dont have to, but if you want solid advice from a person who is NOT trying to sell you something, then you should listen. I teach AR classes and worked on ARs for a little over a decade. I know the things.

If I had a dollar for every guy I have helped that had problems with a "custom" AR, I would have a lot of dollars.

Colt ARs (6721 is the legal MD HBAR) retain their value better than pretty much any AR, their barrels are usually very accurate, and there no need to upgrade anything on the gun (except the notched hammer). Its rare that I see a Colt AR with issues thats in factory condition, thats properly lubed, fed good ammo, and uses good magazines.

If you want a nice trigger, a Geiselle or nothing, and once you wear out the Action Spring (Buffer Spring) put in a Superior Shooting Flat Wire C.S. Spring (They last 500k cycles).

Beyond the above, lube it well, maybe get some optics, and shoot the living hell out of it.

If its not for you, you wont lose much reselling it.

clandestine · Dec 29, 2015

DutchV said:
Here's my take on it: A 5.56 AR is much more useful than a 9mm in any variety. A 5.56 lets you work on marksmanship skills at rifle distances, and possibly do some hunting. 9mm is not well suited for either role.

A 9mm AR is cool, but is not as useful as one in 5.56. Your first rifle should not be neutered.

Yup. Parts are abundant for a 5.56 AR too, 9mm ARs not as common.

clandestine · Dec 29, 2015

DaemonAssassin said:
^^^^ Listen to this man's advice on all things AR.

My spidey senses are tingling.

Sling Blade said:
Not to presume to answer for him of course, but if you intend to buy one, you may as well make it the best one you can buy.

They are really nice factory guns.

DaemonAssassin · Dec 29, 2015

clandestine said:
My spidey senses are tingling.

Hey now, I wasn't going to ask you how good Miltec was as a gun lube. :lol2:

fred333 · Dec 29, 2015

clandestine said:
For having just ONE AR15, go with 5.56/.223. 16" Colt HBAR.

Ditto, but you might wanna view this before making your final decision (re calibre).

aebsr said:
Then I guess what I was confused by was ammo. My experience with Carbines were limited to pistol rounds like 9mm. Whenever someone talks AR I hear nothing but 223, 556, 308...

.223 (.22 calibre; 5.56 is the slightly hotter military version) is the most popular round for ARs, NATO .308 (.30 calibre) is akin to the 30-06 (i.e., larger diameter bullet and more powerful round). The former results in light recoil, the latter....well, not so light....

aebsr · Dec 29, 2015

Thanks for all the info! So 556 is it.

clandestine I'll have to research brand/models more. I'd want to put a floating rail and telescoping stock on that 6721. But at that price point I'm not so sure. Is there anything cheaper you might recommend? That could leave some room in the budget for modifications.

AACo · Dec 29, 2015

aebsr said:
Thanks for all the info! So 556 is it.

clandestine I'll have to research brand/models more. I'd want to put a floating rail and telescoping stock on that 6721. But at that price point I'm not so sure. Is there anything cheaper you might recommend? That could leave some room in the budget for modifications.

If you didn't already know, don't even bother looking at Bushmaster.

offroaD · Dec 29, 2015

aebsr said:
Thanks for all the info! So 556 is it.

clandestine I'll have to research brand/models more. I'd want to put a floating rail and telescoping stock on that 6721. But at that price point I'm not so sure. Is there anything cheaper you might recommend? That could leave some room in the budget for modifications.

Go to engage, they build ARs. They will probably have something for about the same price as the colt with the configuration you want. Other solution is to build. Doesn't make sense to buy a complete rifle and to change things on it, you're pretty much wasting money at that point. Would be cheaper to just build it the way you want it the first time around.

dontpanic · Dec 29, 2015

For your first carbine, you can't beat a 6721. As your first rifle, you have no idea what you want yet. Throwing money at mods that you think you need does not make sense.

Buy a Colt or a Windham and shoot it, a lot. Then you can make a better call on what you actually want.

I have built several now, but my favorite is still my bone stock 6721. The only thing I've added to it is an Aimpoint PRO.

RoadDawg · Dec 29, 2015

Back many years ago when Bushmaster ARs were of decent quality... They were made in Windham Maine. Then the name was bought and the new owners moved production elsewhere. Now there is a (relatively) new rifle company called Windham Arms. The same folks who made the old Bushmasters are back in business. Great rifles at a good price with funds left over for accessories. Several IPs here can get them for you.

Or check with Lou45 and see if he has any Police Trade-ins for the Timonium show in January...

clandestine · Dec 30, 2015

aebsr said:
Thanks for all the info! So 556 is it.

clandestine I'll have to research brand/models more. I'd want to put a floating rail and telescoping stock on that 6721. But at that price point I'm not so sure. Is there anything cheaper you might recommend? That could leave some room in the budget for modifications.

The 6721 has a collapsible stock.

AS mentioned, Windham makes solid Carbines with a HBAR variant. They often run about $100 cheaper but will not resell anywhere near the purchase price.

You can install a Free Float Rail on the Colt or the Windham. If you want a long rail with sights (Low Profile Gas Block or Chopped Front Sight) , it looks cool but is not reliable to keep a zero like a fixed to the the barrel front sight is.

If you want a long rail, get a Dissipator from Windham.

BigRick · Dec 30, 2015

clandestine said:
The 6721 has a collapsible stock.

AS mentioned, Windham makes solid Carbines with a HBAR variant. They often run about $100 cheaper but will not resell anywhere near the purchase price.

You can install a Free Float Rail on the Colt or the Windham. If you want a long rail with sights (Low Profile Gas Block or Chopped Front Sight) , it looks cool but is not reliable to keep a zero like a fixed to the the barrel front sight is.

If you want a long rail, get a Dissipator from Windham.

This guy ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^has forgotten more about the AR platform then most people will ever know.

rico903 · Dec 30, 2015

AACo said:
I'm not an expert with ARs, but this should answer your question.

Carbine is the barrel length. In an AR, there is Carbine, Mid and Rifle length.

14.5" vs 16" vs 20".

Aren't there are also gas tubes that fit these descriptions? One can buy a carbine length barrel with a mid length gas system, can't they?

Mdeng · Dec 30, 2015

offroaD said:
Go to engage, they build ARs. They will probably have something for about the same price as the colt with the configuration you want. Other solution is to build. Doesn't make sense to buy a complete rifle and to change things on it, you're pretty much wasting money at that point. Would be cheaper to just build it the way you want it the first time around.

+1 for Engage Armament. They are located at 701 East Gude drive, Rockville, MD. They have a great selection of AR's ranging from stock factory guns to full on custom.

aebsr · Dec 30, 2015

Awesome. Thanks guy. I'll swing by Engage after the new year. Appreciate all the feedback. Will post here again when I finally get my hands on something.

babalou · Dec 30, 2015

Obi-Wan Clandestine is the one who's words you should heed. The colt is a perfect starter AR ( don;t mean that in a bad way, either) that has about everything you need as a n00b. :innocent0

Then when comfortable, you then start the slippery slope of creating your own. they then multiply like tribbles.

Also, the custom AR at UGS, was it the one with the Crusader Spikes lower? If so, the guy who owns it is the one who is helping me with my Molon Labe Spartan lower. He is Greek and is trying to get the old Greek proper spelling from his elders for 'With your shield or on it' to be put on the reverse. Good guys at UGS. Engage, as well. Both have very friendly people who know their stuff. UGS does have a monkey gun HP 995TS on the wall. That may be my next pew pew. Just because

aebsr · Dec 30, 2015

Well I'll keep an eye out for any second hand 6721s. The consensus is clearly to just do what Clandestine says

- but I'll also check with GG and MGN and see if they have any ARs for rent.

APPLESAUCED226 · Dec 30, 2015

mopar92 said:
Have you shot an AR yet?

I'm always down for pew pew if you want to test drive one.

ill bring a couple too and we can have a blast. I have not shot a 9mm on a ar platform yet though.

AACo · Dec 30, 2015

rico903 said:
Aren't there are also gas tubes that fit these descriptions? One can buy a carbine length barrel with a mid length gas system, can't they?

I'm not sure.

I have always purchased complete uppers.

AR-15 vs Carbine for Rifle Noob

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Ultimate Member

AR-15 Savant

AR-15 Savant

AR-15 Savant

Why should we Free BSD?

Banned

Reluctant Militant

Tiny Member

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Nos nostraque Deo

AR-15 Savant

Hooligan #15

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Reluctant Militant

Ultimate Member

Reluctant Militant

Member

Tiny Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics