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  • gunismyfriend

    Active Member
    Apr 24, 2017
    235
    Hi, guys,
    I'm new to guns, especially AR15. I've been reading a lot here and other sites, as I want to get an AR15 for under 1k. It seems to me Colt 6721 was the clear choice a year ago. Has that changed?
    Since we Marylanders don't have a lot of choices due to hbar, I'd like to ask those experienced hands, what would you buy for the 1st AR15 knowing what you know now? Colt has the new Expanse for $200 less than 6721. Any other possibilities?
    Much appreciated.
     

    -Z/28-

    I wanna go fast
    Dec 6, 2011
    10,649
    Harford Co
    Some places have had Wyndham HBAR carbines under $700 this year. Vheck with JLowes Guns, he's a sponsor here.
     

    gunismyfriend

    Active Member
    Apr 24, 2017
    235
    Thanks a million to everyone.
    Is it possible to list the pro and con of each of the choices? Or are they all similar enough that there is no need to do that? I know the twist in Colt 6721 is 1:9, and CE2000 is 1:7, Ruger 8511 is 1:8.
    Colt Expanse CE2000 seems OEM except lower, but still bears the name Colt, and costs 650 total, so I probably end up with that.
    I'm probably beating a dead horse now. Haha.
    DaemonAssassin, thanks, I may take up your help later, but now I just want something that pops when needed.
    I find JLowes Guns' price very competitive, will definitely keep that in mind.
     

    bkuether

    Judge not this race .....
    Jan 18, 2012
    6,212
    Marriottsville, MD
    Thanks a million to everyone.
    Is it possible to list the pro and con of each of the choices? Or are they all similar enough that there is no need to do that? I know the twist in Colt 6721 is 1:9, and CE2000 is 1:7, Ruger 8511 is 1:8.
    Colt Expanse CE2000 seems OEM except lower, but still bears the name Colt, and costs 650 total, so I probably end up with that.
    I'm probably beating a dead horse now. Haha.
    DaemonAssassin, thanks, I may take up your help later, but now I just want something that pops when needed.
    I find JLowes Guns' price very competitive, will definitely keep that in mind.

    They are all good guns.

    They will all go "bang" when required.

    You have to decide if it is "important" to own a Colt, by name. If not either of the other two will be fine. The Colt will be closest to the military specification.

    Another way of thinking about it, paying less for the gun, means more money for AR bling and ammo.......
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I can give you a parts list that is free float and less than 1k...

    This. I built my first one and regret it zero. I've also built my second one and the spare upper I have. I guess I could see buying one, but half the fun of the AR-15 platform to me is building them.

    That isn't everyone's cup of tea, but by building one you get exactly the parts you want on it.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    DaemonAssassin, thanks, I may take up your help later, but now I just want something that pops when needed.

    If you are insinuating that a home built AR isn't as reliable as one made at a factory, you'd be wrong. If somebody knows what they are doing, during the build process, they can assemble a incredibly reliable AR. How do I know? SOTAR first, then my own builds. My builds are reliable, accurate, and made the way I want them. Fun fact for you: I built a 300BLK for a friend of mine and the first 2 shots out of that AR made one hole in the shape of a figure 8 at 100 yards. I have assembled a free floated AR for $710, including shipping of all the the parts and the cost of the stripped lower w/sales tax and MSP fee.

    If you assemble your first AR, you will have a much better understanding of how it all works and you will get exactly what you want on it. You will compromise on nothing, unless you choose to compromise on part A versus part B. The truth is that you are going to buy that AR off the shelf, then see all the things you can put on it, so you are going to swap the handguard, then the stock, then the trigger, then you will want to free float the barrel, then you will want to do..... Save yourself the money and aggravation, by building it on your own, your way, with the parts you want, from the beginning. You'll save money in the long run. You'll never buy an AR off the shelf after you assemble an AR. Trust me.

    If you ask the membership for help, somebody will offer to help you.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    This. I built my first one and regret it zero. I've also built my second one and the spare upper I have. I guess I could see buying one, but half the fun of the AR-15 platform to me is building them.

    That isn't everyone's cup of tea, but by building one you get exactly the parts you want on it.

    I bought my first one off the shelf at a store. As much as I love that AR, I wish I had built one from the ground up. I have changed out so much on that thing, it isn't even funny.
     

    Docster

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2010
    9,768
    Hi, guys,
    I'm new to guns, especially AR15. I've been reading a lot here and other sites, as I want to get an AR15 for under 1k. It seems to me Colt 6721 was the clear choice a year ago. Has that changed?
    Since we Marylanders don't have a lot of choices due to hbar, I'd like to ask those experienced hands, what would you buy for the 1st AR15 knowing what you know now? Colt has the new Expanse for $200 less than 6721. Any other possibilities?
    Much appreciated.

    I haven't been able to swing a dead cat without finding dozens of ARs under 1K. Both local and online. Look around and then do the research for that which meets your wants and needs.
     

    callidus

    Active Member
    May 21, 2013
    111
    Maryland
    I say build one yourself. It's really not terribly hard (if you played with legos as a kid, you'll be able to do this) and all it takes is a couple of tools you can find on the cheap @ Amazon. I break it down like this:

    You can buy a decent AR (like an M&P15, Ruger, etc.) for $600-800, with no optic. Then you want to pop on another rail, that's ~$100-200. NIB bolt carrier group? $150-200. Different stock? $50-200. The list goes on. By the time you're done you've spent twice the original price of the rifle, when you could have built it the way you wanted it in the first place, and spent the extra $$$ on ammo, training, booze, women....

    You can get a decent hbar barrel for ~150-200 if you shop around, or just buy a barreled upper assembly from somewhere (BCM, Spike's, Palmetto State Armory, the list goes on). I like to buy my BCG from whoever I get the barrel from (i.e. Spike's complete upper or Spike's barrel, Spike's BCG). They're $$ but I like the BCM Mod 4 (Medium) charging handles way more than I thought I would. Go free float handguard if you can. Palmetto State Armory occasionally has the lower parts kits on sale that come with the ALG ACT trigger; it's my favorite cheap-ish trigger (somewhere between the $5 mil-spec trigger and the $200 Geisselle triggers), and it's usually a great deal.

    Just throwing out that option, if you're interested.
     

    dreadpirate

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 7, 2010
    5,521
    Cuba on the Chesapeake

    callidus

    Active Member
    May 21, 2013
    111
    Maryland
    Thanks a million to everyone.
    Is it possible to list the pro and con of each of the choices? Or are they all similar enough that there is no need to do that? I know the twist in Colt 6721 is 1:9, and CE2000 is 1:7, Ruger 8511 is 1:8.
    Colt Expanse CE2000 seems OEM except lower, but still bears the name Colt, and costs 650 total, so I probably end up with that.
    I'm probably beating a dead horse now. Haha.
    DaemonAssassin, thanks, I may take up your help later, but now I just want something that pops when needed.
    I find JLowes Guns' price very competitive, will definitely keep that in mind.

    I like a 1:7 or 1:8 twist. The 1:9 doesn't work so well with heavier bullets, the 1:8 works pretty well with anything, and the 1:7 (milspec) is better for 55gr+ bullets.
     

    callidus

    Active Member
    May 21, 2013
    111
    Maryland
    Sorry to spam; for a starter optic there's a reasonably priced Bushnell; I think it's the TRS25? It's a pretty decent red dot for under $100. IMHO; you're better off saving your pennies and getting an AimPoint PRO around Christmas time (mine was ~$350 in a sale) - the batteries last forever, as will the optic. Buy once cry once. You can pick up the Magpul flip-up backup sights reasonably as well, if you prefer irons starting out. You'll have a lot more fun with an optic though :)
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    Don't buy the Expanse. It is built by another company under license from Colt.

    Barrel is not chrome lined and it has a notched hammer. Among other things. You could spend some time and money and get it up to 6721 specs, but that would be pretty silly.

    The 6721 is a great rifle out of the box. I wish it was 1:8 twist but I mostly shoot 55gr anyway
     

    dreadpirate

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 7, 2010
    5,521
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    I don't think you can go wrong with any of the rifles mentioned here.

    I would not pass up an AR simply because it has a 1 in 9 twist barrel.

    For barrel twist; 1 in 9 will work for anything up to 69 grain, and 70 grain and above needs 1 in 8 (as per the Hornady reloading manual). 1 in 7 was developed for military rounds, like the longer tracer bullets (it's really length, not weight, that drives the rate of spin requirement); I don't see any need for a 1 in 7 twist for recreational shooting myself (except perhaps for an SBR). Also, 1 in 7 prevents you from shooting light varmint rounds (45 grain). How often does anyone shoot their AR with 70+ grain bullets that are rather expensive? My experience - YMMV.
     

    dreadpirate

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 7, 2010
    5,521
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    With a dissipator you get a longer sight radius (distance from rear sight to front sight).
     

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    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    If you are insinuating that a home built AR isn't as reliable as one made at a factory, you'd be wrong. If somebody knows what they are doing, during the build process, they can assemble a incredibly reliable AR. How do I know? SOTAR first, then my own builds. My builds are reliable, accurate, and made the way I want them. Fun fact for you: I built a 300BLK for a friend of mine and the first 2 shots out of that AR made one hole in the shape of a figure 8 at 100 yards. I have assembled a free floated AR for $710, including shipping of all the the parts and the cost of the stripped lower w/sales tax and MSP fee.

    If you assemble your first AR, you will have a much better understanding of how it all works and you will get exactly what you want on it. You will compromise on nothing, unless you choose to compromise on part A versus part B. The truth is that you are going to buy that AR off the shelf, then see all the things you can put on it, so you are going to swap the handguard, then the stock, then the trigger, then you will want to free float the barrel, then you will want to do..... Save yourself the money and aggravation, by building it on your own, your way, with the parts you want, from the beginning. You'll save money in the long run. You'll never buy an AR off the shelf after you assemble an AR. Trust me.

    If you ask the membership for help, somebody will offer to help you.

    Problems can still happen and I am not exactly thousands of rounds deep, but so far the only issue I had was a double feed on one mag. Likely improperly loaded mag combined with improper magazine insertion (it wasn't all the way in).

    I am 100% positive it had nothing to do with the firearm. Otherwise at least 300 odd rounds fired through a home built AR-15 and an AR pistol. That isn't 0 out of 5000 reliability yet, but there is nothing inherently less reliable about a self assembled AR-15 (or any firearm) over a factory output if you know what you are doing and choose quality parts. In fact I'd argue a home built one is likely to be more reliable if you know what you are doing as you are likely to take more care than the assembly line workers are at assembling them and then doing QA of the finished product.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I bought my first one off the shelf at a store. As much as I love that AR, I wish I had built one from the ground up. I have changed out so much on that thing, it isn't even funny.

    If it makes you feel better my first AR I've been changing out parts like crazy chasing weight loss. It wasn't super porky, but a 20" HBAR does weigh a lot. I started at 9lbs7oz and I've chased it down to 9lbs1.8oz with some stuff like an aluminum buffer nut, aluminum end plate, lighter butt stock and so on. New scope mount, gas block and scope are on the list as the final things (3, 1.2 and 1.6oz respectively).

    A lot of it is lessons learned. Get the "right parts" from the start. They were all nice and reliable and good and fine for a bench rest rifle, but I want and have used my 20" HBAR as a hunting rifle and nine and a half pounds gets kind of heavy in the field (call it 10 with a mag and 8 rounds in it) after all day of still hunting. 9lbs with a mag and 8 rounds sounds a lot nicer.

    It also made me much more cognizant of parts choice in building my AR pistol as well as the 16" HBAR upper I just finished, like going skeletonized, but still steel gas block, lighter rider of my red dot, etc. so I don't end up spending money twice. I don't need to pour out money to get a feather, but when spending 10-15% more overall gets me a final build that works just as well and is 10-15% lighter...I'll trade dollars for ounces.
     

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