Carrying on private land.

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  • daNattyFatty

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 27, 2009
    3,908
    Bel Air, MD
    The rules are a bit confusing, but basically the use of centerfire rifles/pistols is only allowed in less populated and in some cases terrain typical of being able to stop a rifle projectile from traveling a mile or so in the event of a miss. Shotguns are mostly limited to slugs and can't travel nearly as far before they drop to the ground, so it was mainly done this way for safety reasons, to protect people and property around hunting areas.

    There are separate seasons for bow, muzzleloader and rifle and they change a bit every year (well, not every year, but they have changed a lot over the many years that I have hunted). Gun season is two weeks, muzzleloader is two weeks and there are a few scattered extra days for each in areas where the deer herd needs to be reduced. Archery is separate (though you can hunt with a bow during gun seasons) and much longer, because archers take fewer deer than gun hunters and it is harder to take a deer with a bow than a gun. Archery is also much safer, so they give us a very long season to use that gear for deer hunting.

    The seasons and regs are to help control the population of wildlife and also keeping in mind the safety of those that live in areas where deer and game are typically hunted. The seasons also take into account the safety of the hunters in the field, so we don't shoot each other too often... LOL Well, more like they don't want gun hunters out when the archery folks are out hunting, etc.. the orange rule for most hunting seasons helps minimize collateral damage to hunters as well.



    To further elaborate from Sticky's comments, hunting is used for game management. More people can manage to hunt deer successfully using modern firearms than using other methods (bows, muzzleloaders, etc). So, hunting deer with modern firearms is fairly limited in the length of season in large part to control the harvest number. But for those who want more challenge, you can also have dedicated seasons for bow and muzzleloader. Furthermore, as deer populations have exploded, more hunting opportunity has been opened up albeit primarily with bow or muzzleloader. There have been other expansions as well including such things as youth hunts and extended deer firearms seasons (such as the 2 day January dates that have become common in recent years) as well as making more hunting accessible to more people during bow season by allowing use of crossbows during archery season (modern crossbows, especially when equipped with a scope, require somewhat less practice to be reasonably proficient than compound or recurve bows especially since most hunters are already familiar with shooting rifles). Note that these seasons mostly have to do with deer hunting rather than small game, upland bird or waterfowl hunting which generally just have a firearms season although it is allowed in some cases to take these other game animals using a bow or muzzleloader. In addition, because of the much more limited range of bow type hunting implements, some areas close to population centers limit all deer hunting within their boundaries to bow only and sometimes disallow the use of firearms for any hunting at all (even shotgun for small game). Nevetheless, shotguns, at least when using small shot for small game or birds (which actually also have very limited range a few hundred yards or less) so are often allowed for small game or bird hunting even in areas where deer hunting is limited to bow. This is because even though shotguns shooting slugs have more limited range than rifles in general, they still have very significant range when compared to a smoothbore shotgun using smaller shot. There are, however, a number of areas open to bow hunting for deer where no firearms are allowed.

    Yeah, it can be complex. However, what you really have to be concerned with is the exact hunting regs and laws for the area you expect to be hunting.



    Thanks for the very detailed explanations!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Manage wildlife populations, AND provide recreational opportunities for Maryland and visiting Sportsmen .

    Initially bow seasons could provide a LOT of time afield ( for subgroup of sportsmen with strong identity and voice) , without much calculus to tweak the numbers for the regular firearm season .

    Then muzzleloaders ( the humans ) also wanted uncrowded time in the woods, to persue theirs extra challenge.

    Keep in mind that for a loooong time from the begining of the Modern Era until comparatively recently , modern firearms season was ONE Week in Maryland and all nearby states . Archery season was essentially as long as now .

    ( While geezing , it was default Buck only, unless you had a Doe Stamp . Specific to a county, if any, and you could only recieve one . Trying to remember if you could only apply for one , or if you could put a second choice.

    Added - Outside of that week , people commonly hunted squirrel, rabbits, etc , unless they were dedicated archery guys. Nowadays between all the expanded deer seasons , small game hunting has been overshadowed.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    But it has to be in a county/ area where centerfire rifles are allowed for deer hunting. Most of Md is restricted to shotgun or muzzleloader. And in that scenario must meet the bbl length and muzzle energy requirements.

    The interesting answer to the question you didn't ask :

    Coyote can be hunted in every county in Md.
    Coyote are in season 365 , part of the year 24hrs .
    Handguns are acceptable for hunting coyote, with no limit on cal , bbl length, or muzzle energy.

    Except most of the counties that do not allow rifle hunting of deer also ban use of a rifle or pistol for hunting PERIOD except in certain areas.

    Example, Howard county ordinance only allows rifled firearms if you are on a rural tract of land (they have a map, basically just the western half of the county) that is over I think 5 acres? It might be more like 6. After that consideration, HoCo has 300 yard safety zones for firearms, except shotguns loaded with shot or if you are in a treestand at least, I think it is, 10 feet off the ground.

    I haven’t seen in, but if deer or bear hunting during archery season and carrying a handgun for bear protection, it CANNOT meet the standards for legal hunting length and muzzle energy. So shorter barreled revolvers and semi-autos only. Also as mentioned only the western part of the state.

    Lastly, private property does not matter. My neighbor and I are good friends. I can’t carry a handgun over there to show to him because he is interested in it and he said it was fine.

    Stupid state.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Rifled vs shotgun for deer vs Rifled for anything varies widely, I won't try to summize , check carefully where you live, or visit.

    Exactly six inch bbls can go both ways. Deer hunting is At Least 6in , archery carry is Not Over6in .

    Less than the Md specified FtLb still leaves 99% of SD suitable ammo .

    Is Coyote hunting a panacea? Nah . But at the least can be combined with most camping hiking, and fishing in all seasons. And transport if you are travelling to many areas of the state.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Lastly, private property does not matter. My neighbor and I are good friends. I can’t carry a handgun over there to show to him because he is interested in it and he said it was fine.

    Stupid state.

    Wrong.

    If you have permission from the owner of the property to be able to carry, you are legally allowed to carry on their property. The smart play is to let them know every time you are carrying, before you step foot over the property line.

    By your statement, that would mean that I can not legally host an OC/CC BBQ at my house. But considering I know people that have done a OC/CC BBQ on their own property, I also know what the law allows. Furthermore, when the police did show up, because we were shooting on private property at the BBQ, they wanted to ensure that we were all shooting safely and that we had permission from the property owner to be carrying OC/CC. Nobody was arrested or charged with a crime.

    The law says what you cannot do, not what you can do.

    You have some serious BGOS. Read the laws and you will see that quite a few of your current and past statements are incorrect.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    Wrong.

    If you have permission from the owner of the property to be able to carry, you are legally allowed to carry on their property. The smart play is to let them know every time you are carrying, before you step foot over the property line.

    By your statement, that would mean that I can not legally host an OC/CC BBQ at my house. But considering I know people that have done a OC/CC BBQ on their own property, I also know what the law allows. Furthermore, when the police did show up, because we were shooting on private property at the BBQ, they wanted to ensure that we were all shooting safely and that we had permission from the property owner to be carrying OC/CC. Nobody was arrested or charged with a crime.

    The law says what you cannot do, not what you can do.

    You have some serious BGOS. Read the laws and you will see that quite a few of your current and past statements are incorrect.
    Ummmm, you may want to look a little deeper at the transport exceptions. Transporting to carry on someone's private land is not an allowable reason to transport without a permit. Certainly transporting to target shooting is permissible so your scenario fit that exception but an open carry bbq by itself does not.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Ummmm, you may want to look a little deeper at the transport exceptions. Transporting to carry on someone's private land is not an allowable reason to transport without a permit. Certainly transporting to target shooting is permissible so your scenario fit that exception but an open carry bbq by itself does not.

    I am referring to carrying while walking onto an adjacent property, when the owner of the adjacent property has granted permission for you to carry while on their property.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I am referring to carrying while walking onto an adjacent property, when the owner of the adjacent property has granted permission for you to carry while on their property.

    Nope, that isn’t listed as being allowed under the law.

    As for the BBQ event, if you guys were target shooting there, it falls under the exception for sports shooting/range transport.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    I am referring to carrying while walking onto an adjacent property, when the owner of the adjacent property has granted permission for you to carry while on their property.
    Nope, that isn’t listed as being allowed under the law.

    As for the BBQ event, if you guys were target shooting there, it falls under the exception for sports shooting/range transport.
    Exactly, if your employer can't give you permission to carry in his parking lot, your neighbor certainly can't give you permission to carry on their land in defiance of Maryland law no matter how unjust it is.

    As I pointed out previously and as Lazarus points out now it is the target shooting that legitimized your carry that day.


    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-appeals/1645512.html
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,877
    Actually Business Premises are treated differently than non-business residential property under 4-203 ( and the previous 27 dash whatever ).
     

    ADR

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 17, 2011
    4,171
    Exactly, if your employer can't give you permission to carry in his parking lot, your neighbor certainly can't give you permission to carry on their land in defiance of Maryland law no matter how unjust it is.

    As I pointed out previously and as Lazarus points out now it is the target shooting that legitimized your carry that day.


    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/md-court-of-appeals/1645512.html

    Pure BS and it's not in "defiance" of any Maryland law so long as none of the participants are otherwise prohibited.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Pure BS and it's not in "defiance" of any Maryland law so long as none of the participants are otherwise prohibited.

    Sorry, no. It is illegal under 4-203 http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...cle=gcr&section=4-203&ext=html&session=2015RS

    This is the closest you get

    (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

    There is NO exemption for carrying it on any other property unless it is to by it, sell it, turn it in, repair it, take it between your properties, use it for hunting, target shooting or dog obedience training unless you have authorization from your employer to carry it within the confines of their premise. Exceptions for licensed security guards, armored car drivers, LEO, military and wear and carry permit holders.

    I can’t legally open or concealed carry it over to my next door neighbor’s house even if he says it is okay unless I am gong over there and we are headed out hunting or target shooting (our properties are in HoCo, so no target shooting on them).

    Stupid as hell that a private property owner can’t authorize you to open carry a handgun on their property, but according to 4-203 it is NOT considered an exception.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    Actually Business Premises are treated differently than non-business residential property under 4-203 ( and the previous 27 dash whatever ).
    Not the point, just giving an example of the fact that even businesses can't give permission to whoever they want however they want.
     

    fidelity

    piled higher and deeper
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 15, 2012
    22,400
    Frederick County
    ... 4-203 http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...cle=gcr&section=4-203&ext=html&session=2015RS

    ...

    (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

    ...

    Is the emboldened bit what enables folks to keep a firearm in their hotel room or tent while camping in Maryland? If people are invited to your place with the option of crashing the night (not too unusual), wouldn't transport there be covered too? General question. Not directed at anyone specifically.


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    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    Pure BS and it's not in "defiance" of any Maryland law so long as none of the participants are otherwise prohibited.
    You are wrong. You don't have to like it, agree with it, or believe it to be constitutional. Heck you don't even have to obey it. I don't like it, agree with it, or believe it to be constitutional. Facts are facts, it is not legal in Maryland to carry on your neighbors property even with their permission just for the hell of it. This of course applies to those without a handgun permit.

    The terms "pure BS" and the quotes around "defiance" don't change the fact that you are wrong either.

    That is all.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    Sorry, no. It is illegal under 4-203 http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/f...cle=gcr&section=4-203&ext=html&session=2015RS

    This is the closest you get

    (6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

    There is NO exemption for carrying it on any other property unless it is to by it, sell it, turn it in, repair it, take it between your properties, use it for hunting, target shooting or dog obedience training unless you have authorization from your employer to carry it within the confines of their premise. Exceptions for licensed security guards, armored car drivers, LEO, military and wear and carry permit holders.

    I can’t legally open or concealed carry it over to my next door neighbor’s house even if he says it is okay unless I am gong over there and we are headed out hunting or target shooting (our properties are in HoCo, so no target shooting on them).

    Stupid as hell that a private property owner can’t authorize you to open carry a handgun on their property, but according to 4-203 it is NOT considered an exception.
    Exactly. It's crazy, in some threads we have BGOS, and in others we are advising folks that illegal activities are just fine and dandy.
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    We refer back to the law states what you can not do. The law does not state what you can do. In the absence of it being illegal, that action is considered legal.

    Now if you are going to go by what the law supposedly "allows", I am free to deny LE the ability to carry on my property, even in the pursuit of their duties. There is your double edged sword.

    With that said, I'm done with this lunacy.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    We refer back to the law states what you can not do. The law does not state what you can do. In the absence of it being illegal, that action is considered legal.

    Now if you are going to go by what the law supposedly "allows", I am free to deny LE the ability to carry on my property, even in the pursuit of their duties. There is your double edged sword.

    With that said, I'm done with this lunacy.

    Except read the start of the law in question...it says you CANNOT open or conceal carry a handgun in Maryland and then goes on to list the EXCEPTIONS to this blanket ban (ie, “what you can do”) LEO have a blanket exemotion from the law. As do serving members of the military in the performance of their duties. W&C holders have a limited exemption.

    The law isn’t that long. Click the link and read it. I’d figured as long as you’d been around you had. There is a bit of “what exactly does that mean?” But it is mostly clear language with only a bit of gray area or ambiguity.

    It does NOT list an exception to open carrying a handgun on a friend’s property. Unless you are there to target shoot, hunt or they are fixing your gun as a licensed gun smith, or perhaps it might be okay if you were spending the night (see residing exception) then you are carrying illegally.

    Early question in the hotel room/tent and a handgun...tent camping, absolutely not legal unless you are engaged in hunting or target shooting ancillary to that (then you’d probably be okay). Just spending a night in a hotel room, also probably not okay unless involved in hunting or target shooting in some way. For instance it would probably be kosher if I were to go to the range in Greenridge, take a hundgun for target shooting and then spend a night in a hotel nearby or camp in the state Forrest with one. You could be hunting and do that as well probably (don’t carry it around while you are going to a restaurant).

    My 2 cents are not something I’d want to test. Spending a night at a friend’s house in connection with one of the other legal exceptions would also probably be okay.
     

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