- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,982
The "best" home defense firearm- Vigilance Elite
- Thread starter Blaster229
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JRazgaitis
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I love his videos I watch them all of the time.
Came to post this as well. For some reason his dry sense of humor cracks me up.
Happy to see the Demo Dick reference!
jcutonilli
Ultimate Member
- Mar 28, 2013
- 2,474
Did you see the wall with studs and siding behind those 2 pieces? It was even constructed with tvek for a moisture barrier.
Anyone can easily say "well a round can hit a cabinet with soup cans in it", or whatever.
I think the point is that it was different self defense modes/rounds being tested against each other with 1 consistent media. Which is as close to shooting from inside "a house" as possible. Without shooting from inside a fully furnished house and a human being.
The video is best home defense weapon and not round.
I was hesitant to post this video because I knew it would be parsed down to the molecular minutae of stats, much like the ad nauseum arguments in BMW motorcycle forums about whether SAE or synthetic is better for your engine.
It's a basic video from a guy who has shot more people from inside a dwelling than the combined total of ZERO of all members commenting on this video.
I think a pistol caliber carbine is probably the best for home defense, for the average person. Well, for those who aren't that great with a pistol. Like he said in the very first part.
Now, where's that "bird shot is great" thread again that I have to get to.
Did you see that he shot through some thin meat for some shots and not others. How is that one consistent media? We are not talking about "molecular minutiae of stats" We are a talking about inconsistencies from shot to shot.
Do you lean two sheets of drywall against your walls? I don't do that in my house. How is that "as close to shooting from inside "a house" as possible?
He may have killed lots of people and he may be very skilled at using guns in all kinds of tactical situations, but that does not mean he knows everything and is always right. Coaches don't play the game as well as professional players, but the coaches add a different perspective that most players lack.
He does not seem to understand the shotgun very well. While he is correct that shot is not appropriate for hostage situations. He does not seem to understand that slugs can be used. The problem is not with the shotgun, it is with the person using it and not understanding the advantages and disadvantages that various loads bring to the shotgun.
I am not sure anyone is stating "bird shot is great". It certainly has a lot of limitations. The real question is to they really understand those limitations. Most people seem to dismiss it out of ignorance. I certainly have not seen you contributing to better understand those limitations. There certainly are some people that think it might be acceptable in certain situations, but I have not seen anything definitive either way.
A shotgun is a TERRIBLE home defense weapon. Can you fire it one handed if you needed? Can you turn around inside a hallway if you have it pointed forward? Can you open a door while aiming one?
Your enthusiasm for the shotgun is overwhelmed by and unbalanced by your ignorance of home defense.
Do tell us, what is your plethora of shotgun training? Or ANY training other than YouTube.
Your enthusiasm for the shotgun is overwhelmed by and unbalanced by your ignorance of home defense.
Do tell us, what is your plethora of shotgun training? Or ANY training other than YouTube.
Name Taken
Ultimate Member
If your home defense plan is to hide in your master bedroom and wait for the police then it's a great option...likely the best. If you have folks in other rooms that you have to secure of plan on going GI Joe and clearing your own house there's better options. If it was just me and the wife I'd be more than happy holding up in our bedroom and calling 911. With kids in different locations I'm sure that plan would change and render a shotgun less than idea.
Oh..slugs are great. No one is changing from slugs to buck and back. And if you think you'll remember to pump and dump that buck to get to your slug I hope your practicing.
Oh..slugs are great. No one is changing from slugs to buck and back. And if you think you'll remember to pump and dump that buck to get to your slug I hope your practicing.
That's typically my plan A. Wait for them to come through the beautiful fatal funnel of the bedroom door. However, I prefer to have at least 15 rounds to work with compared to 6ish? shells. Plus having to work the pump.
My plan, living out in the country now, is different. When you dial 911 out here, they call back 30 minutes later asking if everything is ok yet.
The BR is on ground level and I have some large bedroom windows to worry about also. Going to be a dynamic situation for me.
You sir, need a hidey hole cut in your floor into your crawl space...That's typically my plan A. Wait for them to come through the beautiful fatal funnel of the bedroom door. However, I prefer to have at least 15 rounds to work with compared to 6ish? shells. Plus having to work the pump.
My plan, living out in the country now, is different. When you dial 911 out here, they call back 30 minutes later asking if everything is ok yet.
The BR is on ground level and I have some large bedroom windows to worry about also. Going to be a dynamic situation for me.
That would be the basement. lol
- Jul 29, 2014
- 49,982
Everybody's got to have a fall-back plan. We have ours. In most cases, the MBR is a good one IMO. Clearing houses-two is one and one is none. It's one thing if you hear a bump in the night, but someone kicks your front door in, it's time to grab the phone(wife's job) and the gun(s), and hunker down to your last line of defense. Usually that is the bedroom. Especially if you sleep on the second floor. I don't like the idea of hunkering behind the bed. That's where the first salvo is headed.
jcutonilli
Ultimate Member
- Mar 28, 2013
- 2,474
Are you saying the YouTube video YOU posted is not appropriate to learn from?
One of the problems I had with the video is that he discounted shotguns because he could not take a hostage shot. I believe someone else agreed with that.
I am simply pointing out that you can use a slug for that particular type of shot. Apparently you don't even want to defend what you have said.
I have certainly tried to understand why you don't believe a shotgun is appropriate. You did not want to provide a reason in the last thread.
I certainly get that there is no perfect gun and they all have limitations. I have never claimed that shotguns are the perfect home defense weapon.
The issues you raise seem to be an issue with any long gun, such as a PCC, and not just shotguns.
What's your self defense training and experience?
jcutonilli
Ultimate Member
- Mar 28, 2013
- 2,474
How does my training and experience change whether a slug is appropriate for a hostage shot or whether the other issues you raise are shotgun only issues or apply to other long guns?
HSTD
Member
I like shotguns generally, but can understand and agree with some of B-229s reasons for not preferring them.
Everyone is going to have their preference, and it will probably be something that they are most comfortable with. If you are more comfortable with something, you'll probably feel more confident about using it if needed.
Thugs are looking for victims, not for counter attacks. The best defense is a strong and determined offense against these creeps.
Everyone is going to have their preference, and it will probably be something that they are most comfortable with. If you are more comfortable with something, you'll probably feel more confident about using it if needed.
Thugs are looking for victims, not for counter attacks. The best defense is a strong and determined offense against these creeps.
Because I have trained in them and you haven't.
I can go back and forth for years on this. I know what I am doing.
Qualify yourself.
Thanks.
jcutonilli
Ultimate Member
- Mar 28, 2013
- 2,474
Are you saying ballistics somehow change depending on whether someone is trained or not?
You certainly claim to know what they are doing, but I have yet to see you back it up with evidence.
I doubt you can go back an forth for years. You will likely get kicked off way before that.
I qualify based off my mall ninja skills.
I have 4 different variations of weapons in the video in my bedroom. My go to is a suppressed MPX...because I suck with a pistol. Sure I can slow fire tiny groups at 7 yards but shooting fast, moving targets....not comfy(yes I know, I should train the most with my pistol). I do have a shotgun, handguns and AR I'm there also.
I'm no rambo...I'm calling 911, getting kiddos in bedroom with me and waiting. That 28" funnel will be nad news for someone coming through.
I have 4 different variations of weapons in the video in my bedroom. My go to is a suppressed MPX...because I suck with a pistol. Sure I can slow fire tiny groups at 7 yards but shooting fast, moving targets....not comfy(yes I know, I should train the most with my pistol). I do have a shotgun, handguns and AR I'm there also.
I'm no rambo...I'm calling 911, getting kiddos in bedroom with me and waiting. That 28" funnel will be nad news for someone coming through.
A butterknife is a terrible home defense weapon. But even that is better than having nothing. A shotty is not a terrible HD weapon.
I wouldn't rely on just one home defense weapon, but my shotgun choice in that situation is Standard Manufacturing's DP12 (double barrel pump 12ga).
Can I turn in a hallway with this bullpup? Yes, in fact, I can. Easily. The bullpup layout also makes it very well balanced at the grip, so in a pinch one-handed firing is also possible. Opening doors while aiming? Not with the same degree of holding aim as when not opening doors, but I think that's the case with all firearms (except for the ones that open doors by blowing them apart).
You like minimum 15 rounds. Me too! The DP12 holds 16 3in. shells. Rack once, shoot twice. Hopefully, as the nice man in the video mentioned, that racking sound alone may have an effect on bad guys. And the DP12 has a particularly authoritative racking sound. If that doesn't work, you can alternate between slugs and shot, left and right barrel, if you want. In any case, lots of training is advised.
To each his own. You don't like shotties for HD...OK. But if you had one and a butterknife next to it, which one would you grab when bad guys forced enter in the dead of night?
Fortunately my home defense plan doesn't rely on a butter knife and shotgun laying on the floor next to each other. 
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