Lyman Deerstalker Help

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

  • No ad networks!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • kmittleman

    Active Member
    Nov 22, 2010
    857
    Howard County
    Hi Guys,

    I’ve been working with this gun for a few months now. I’ve noticed the past few range trips that even though I cleaned it like crazy, I pull some rusty patches out before I start shooting. Also, the first shot doesn’t seem to go off.

    For cleaning I use soap and hot water to clean out the bore, use some pre soaked patches until clean, I dry out the bore and then run a few rust preventative patches through it.

    For shooting, I first run a few dry patches through it, fire off a #11 cap, and then load the gun with 80 gr Pryo/.535 PRB/.010 lubed patch. I usually have to pull the PRB, clean the bore and try again. Eventually it starts shooting consistently.

    Any ideas?

    K
     
    Hi Guys,

    I’ve been working with this gun for a few months now. I’ve noticed the past few range trips that even though I cleaned it like crazy, I pull some rusty patches out before I start shooting. Also, the first shot doesn’t seem to go off.

    For cleaning I use soap and hot water to clean out the bore, use some pre soaked patches until clean, I dry out the bore and then run a few rust preventative patches through it.

    For shooting, I first run a few dry patches through it, fire off a #11 cap, and then load the gun with 80 gr Pryo/.535 PRB/.010 lubed patch. I usually have to pull the PRB, clean the bore and try again. Eventually it starts shooting consistently.

    Any ideas?

    K

    Yep...are you keeping it loaded in the house and taking it to the range loaded no cap? If so it's condensation. Ive got the same rifle and had the same issue. Also buy yourself a nipple pick and use it prior to loading it and in between shots.
     

    kmittleman

    Active Member
    Nov 22, 2010
    857
    Howard County
    Yep...are you keeping it loaded in the house and taking it to the range loaded no cap? If so it's condensation. Ive got the same rifle and had the same issue. Also buy yourself a nipple pick and use it prior to loading it and in between shots.

    Actually I only load when I get to the range.
     

    Art3

    Eqinsu Ocha
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 30, 2015
    13,267
    Harford County
    I keep my muzzleloaders a little too wet with Ballistol inside and out, because they don't come out to play on a regular basis. When I do take one out of the safe, after a dry patch, I pour a little bit of isopropyl alcohol down the bore to try to kill that last little bit of oil at the breech. I close the hammer (or frizzen) on a paper towel to prevent a mess, and really only use a capful, followed by another dry patch. By the time we get to the range, anything remaining has evaporated. I still do the cap first. On my flintlock, that can be a little temperamental, I will load an unwadded blank for the first shot. If it won't go, it's a lot easier to just dump out the powder than pull a ball.

    What you might try next time, after you've dry patched it (and, based on the length of your wiping rod, are absolutely sure it isn't loaded ;) ), blow down the muzzle to see if the air coming out of the nipple sounds completely dry, or you get a little bubble of oil.

    Storing it muzzle down might prevent oil from collecting in the worst possible spot: where the fire is supposed to meet the charge.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,729
    Socialist State of Maryland
    When cleaning your rifle, use a non mineral based oil afterwards. Something like Ballistol or bear grease used lightly will keep it from rusting and won't interact with the Pyrodex to form gum. Also, always remove your nipple when cleaning and dry the bolster and touch hole with a pipe cleaner and alcohol. Also, use Magnum caps for Pyrodex to insure ignition in cold weather. These few extra steps will insure your rifle fires every time.
     

    kmittleman

    Active Member
    Nov 22, 2010
    857
    Howard County
    When cleaning your rifle, use a non mineral based oil afterwards. Something like Ballistol or bear grease used lightly will keep it from rusting and won't interact with the Pyrodex to form gum. Also, always remove your nipple when cleaning and dry the bolster and touch hole with a pipe cleaner and alcohol. Also, use Magnum caps for Pyrodex to insure ignition in cold weather. These few extra steps will insure your rifle fires every time.

    Would I use straight ballistol? Could I also use bore butter?
     

    linkstate

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 26, 2013
    1,405
    Howard County
    The Lyman/Investarms muzzleloaders have a reduced chamber (some call it a patent breech but supposedly it is not a true patent breech). You need to use a smaller diameter brush to reach all the way down to clean it out. I use a .22cal brush wrapped with a patch. I think a .30 brush would work, can't remember. I also 2nd swabbing/rinsing with alcohol before loading up.
     

    kmittleman

    Active Member
    Nov 22, 2010
    857
    Howard County
    Are you taking the nipple out when you clean it? It doesn't take much to stop up that tiny hole

    Yes I take that out and the retention screw and clean them. I did put a new stock on the gun since the old one cracked after shooting it 3 times. I half way thought maybe the ergonomics could have caused a micro change in the mating of the stock and the barrel. But the gun shoots fine after a few times.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,063
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I use a CVA hawken and mine has always fired except with a bad cap, cap not seated or I failed to clean the nipple and be sure it was open. I clean the barrel with 180 degree water and pour some in a cup and toss the nipple in with it and swish all around. Check to see light through it after it dry and scrape and check with a pin before putting away. I oil the gun but nothing inside the nipple.

    Mine has a screw holding the mount the nipple is on and I leave that and screw the nipple with a nipple wrench. Are you doing that? Are you taking the nippe out or the assmbly and leaving the nipple in?
    iu
     

    kmittleman

    Active Member
    Nov 22, 2010
    857
    Howard County
    I use a CVA hawken and mine has always fired except with a bad cap, cap not seated or I failed to clean the nipple and be sure it was open. I clean the barrel with 180 degree water and pour some in a cup and toss the nipple in with it and swish all around. Check to see light through it after it dry and scrape and check with a pin before putting away. I oil the gun but nothing inside the nipple.

    Mine has a screw holding the mount the nipple is on and I leave that and screw the nipple with a nipple wrench. Are you doing that? Are you taking the nippe out or the assmbly and leaving the nipple in?
    iu

    Mine looks just like that with the nipple retention screw. I take both that and the nipple out to clean them and let them soak in black powder solvent. Then I use pipe cleaners to clean/dry out those holes.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,729
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Mine looks just like that with the nipple retention screw. I take both that and the nipple out to clean them and let them soak in black powder solvent. Then I use pipe cleaners to clean/dry out those holes.

    That is not a nipple retention screw. That is a bolster clean out screw and goes directly into the barrel touch hole on the other side of the bolster. If you put anti seize on it, you can remover it and run a BP type pipe cleaner through it to clean carbon out of the hole.
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Once you remove the oil or preservative out of your barrel, ( I use brake-clean liberally then dry with dry patch nipple removed) and your prepping for loading... Take your wiping stick/range rod then with with clean dry patch insert into the barrel fully to the breech.

    Lift off the breech and with stick patch jag still inserted into bore, reinstall dried and cleared nipple them snap one or two properly stored (good and hot) caps with the rod in the barrel.

    Retrieve rod and patch then look at it, it should have a blackened burned area on it and almost be perforated/ threadbare through the patch on the jag. (use a real cotton cloth patch not some half plastic or man made stuff)
    What your doing is drying the breech and laying a layer of carbon where the charge will be positioned.

    Charge rifle and tap side of lock to migrate powder into the snail/bolster and then seat your projie nice and tight with consistent and firm pressure.
    Fold up a clean and dry patch and place on un-primed nipple for the trip to the woods or range or whatever. Keep the rifle cold or at stable temps in between hunting trips for sure fire ignition when you need it. Once a rifle is charged Ill run some junk oil like WD or Rem oil lightly into the bore to combat moisture and prevent it from being unprotected. Clean bare steel will oxidize/rust quickly.

    I clean my rifles with boiling hot water that evaporates before the bore breech is swapped with storage oil. Quick wipe down on the exterior with a water displacing oil.
    Then follow up the next day or so to guard against any abnormalities.
    I generally stray away from bore butter or water based seasoning gimmicks.
    I'm not saying their entirely no good but they have water in them that can be harmful under the right conditions or when maintenance is overlooked.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,665
    Not Far Enough from the City
    Like others have mentioned, I soon found that my best friends for preparing to shoot my cleaned TC Hawken were a pipe cleaner and a nipple wrench. Especially true since I stored my newly cleaned rifle upright, and of course gravity does what it does given lots of time and any excess oil. That pipe cleaner is worth its weight in gold. It will help to soak up any oil accumulated in the nipple, and also in the threads and the well of the breech plug. Then snap a cap, and you should be good.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,729
    Socialist State of Maryland
    One important thing that some folks don't think of is to keep the rifle in the garage or outdoors the night before hunting. This prevents condensation forming from bringing a warm rifle into a cold environment. Black powder and its substitutes don't play well with water moisture.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,665
    Not Far Enough from the City
    One important thing that some folks don't think of is to keep the rifle in the garage or outdoors the night before hunting. This prevents condensation forming from bringing a warm rifle into a cold environment. Black powder and its substitutes don't play well with water moisture.

    Great advice!

    Was a thing with scopes too, maybe more so yesteryear. But that's another thread. :)
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    One important thing that some folks don't think of is to keep the rifle in the garage or outdoors the night before hunting. This prevents condensation forming from bringing a warm rifle into a cold environment. Black powder and its substitutes don't play well with water moisture.

    Thanks for the clarification. I thought I addressed that adequately that in post # 16 to some extent.
    When you must move a rifle indoors, keep it in a case so it can assume room temperature at a slower rate to prevent condensation.
    Some people snap a cap which blows congealed oil right onto the walls of the barrel then load right on top of it. If your going to load and fire right away that's not always a big deal however, the residual oil can become problematic at a later time.

    You need to create some sort of resistance to adequately burn contaminates away and prep the powder area if your going to tote the rifle around before its fired especially when hunting.
    They also like to see a blade of grass or something like that move which is an indication of a clear flash channel, but does not always guarantee peak performance from delayed ignition resulting from oil/ powder contamination for a shot that might be taken at a later time.
    Carrying the rifle around from the area just in front of the lock for extended periods can cause condensation when conditions are right as well.

    Happy muzzle loading hunting everybody during the late season and good luck! Nothing like a rifle that doesn't act like it should when you want it too the most.
     

    Users who are viewing this thread

    Latest posts

    Forum statistics

    Threads
    274,918
    Messages
    7,258,691
    Members
    33,348
    Latest member
    Eric_Hehl

    Latest threads

    Top Bottom