Age limit on manufacturing / possessing a handgun?

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  • Nov 20, 2019
    29
    I think this is where the law can get tricky. The way I read it, if an individual possesses an item that could be considered a Regulated Firearm, they can not own it unless they are over 21; registered or not.

    Hypothetical situation, if I'm reading the law correctly, if I'm under 21 and I start completing a 80%. The instant that I drill the last hole and turn my 80% lower into a 100% lower, I would be breaking the law since I now possess a Regulated Firearm. Now that I think about it some more, it probably wouldn't matter that I build it into a HBAR. At one point in time that home built lower was a Regulated Firearm.

    Basically I’m screwed until 21 is what I took from that. I’ve never filled the 77r form so I don’t know if you need to be 21 or not to fill it, but basically I can own an 80%, but I can’t do anything with it until I’m 21. This is all hypothetical
     
    TrappingTurtles- This might make a little bit of sense...
    A completed HBAR rifle requires the federal form 4473, an "instant" background check and money to buy the gun. Maryland's government doesn't have the info on the sale; only the FFL. You can be in and out of the shop in 10 minutes if you're a legal buyer.
    A stripped lower also requires a Maryland form 77r, state police fee and a 7 day wait. The MD state police have records that you bought it.

    If I were you, I would stick with rifles and shotguns until you're 21. The potential risk of doing a pistol could, by law, make you legally prohibited from buying any firearm for life.
     
    Basically I’m screwed until 21 is what I took from that. I’ve never filled the 77r form so I don’t know if you need to be 21 or not to fill it, but basically I can own an 80%, but I can’t do anything with it until I’m 21. This is all hypothetical

    You can build the 80% lower into a HBAR rifle right now- legally. The pistol is what can get you into trouble.
     
    Nov 20, 2019
    29
    TrappingTurtles- This might make a little bit of sense...
    A completed HBAR rifle requires the federal form 4473, an "instant" background check and money to buy the gun. Maryland's government doesn't have the info on the sale; only the FFL. You can be in and out of the shop in 10 minutes if you're a legal buyer.
    A stripped lower also requires a Maryland form 77r, state police fee and a 7 day wait. The MD state police have records that you bought it.

    If I were you, I would stick with rifles and shotguns until you're 21. The potential risk of doing a pistol could, by law, make you legally prohibited from buying any firearm for life.

    I’m better off just waiting until 21. Last thing I want is to get in trouble because I can’t get any gun at that point.
     
    Nov 20, 2019
    29
    This is what you are looking for

    https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2016/public-safety/title-5/subtitle-1/section-5-133/




    An AR Pistol (even one made from an 80%) is a regulated firearm, so generally possession for someone under 21 is unlawful. Possession of a "regulated firearm", for self defense in your OWN residence is probably lawful. But you cannot take it to the range for practice, over to your friends house to show off, etc. it really would have to stay in your house all the time. And if it did, and you never got in trouble, who would know anyway? Stay away from stupid friends doing stupid things in stupid places that could also get you into trouble. Dont be caught with drugs, alcohol, or anything else that could turn you into a prohibited person and cause a search. Also, note all the other prohibitors like juvenile delinquency...

    If it were me, i'd stick with a carbine (556 or even a pistol caliber one), or shotgun, until I was 21. Those are legal and could be taken to the range for practice.

    I have a mossberg 500, DB15eb. I realize it would have to stay at home which I’m ok with, but I still don’t want to run a chance of getting arrested.
     

    Ranchero50

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 15, 2012
    5,411
    Hagerstown MD
    If you build a 14.5" SOCOM barreled carbine with a pinned flash hider to get the correct length you won't need a pistol. I did this a couple years ago out of a 80% and it's a very ergonomic build.
     

    Mark75H

    MD Wear&Carry Instructor
    Industry Partner
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 25, 2011
    17,174
    Outside the Gates
    I think this is where the law can get tricky. The way I read it, if an individual possesses an item that could be considered a Regulated Firearm, they can not own it unless they are over 21; registered or not.

    Hypothetical situation, if I'm reading the law correctly, if I'm under 21 and I start completing a 80%. The instant that I drill the last hole and turn my 80% lower into a 100% lower, I would be breaking the law since I now possess a Regulated Firearm. Now that I think about it some more, it probably wouldn't matter that I build it into a HBAR. At one point in time that home built lower was a Regulated Firearm.

    I know you've decided not to, but this part is wrong. As soon as you pass the 80% threshold, its a firearm. Might not be the first hole, but definitely once someone drills 2 holes or 1 hole and some other work, its beyond 80% and a firearm under the law.
     
    Nov 20, 2019
    29
    If you build a 14.5" SOCOM barreled carbine with a pinned flash hider to get the correct length you won't need a pistol. I did this a couple years ago out of a 80% and it's a very ergonomic build.

    I’ve thought about pinning some sort of muzzle device on to push it over the legal limit of 16. Any thoughts on slip on fake cans?
     
    Nov 20, 2019
    29
    This is what you are looking for

    https://law.justia.com/codes/maryland/2016/public-safety/title-5/subtitle-1/section-5-133/




    An AR Pistol (even one made from an 80%) is a regulated firearm, so generally possession for someone under 21 is unlawful. Possession of a "regulated firearm", for self defense in your OWN residence is probably lawful. But you cannot take it to the range for practice, over to your friends house to show off, etc. it really would have to stay in your house all the time. And if it did, and you never got in trouble, who would know anyway? Stay away from stupid friends doing stupid things in stupid places that could also get you into trouble. Dont be caught with drugs, alcohol, or anything else that could turn you into a prohibited person and cause a search. Also, note all the other prohibitors like juvenile delinquency...

    If it were me, i'd stick with a carbine (556 or even
    a pistol caliber one), or shotgun, until I was 21. Those are legal and could be taken to the range for practice.

    I’ve always stayed out of trouble growing up. Even at 19, being a full time worker and employee while attending college, I just stick to myself mostly compared to others my age. Ive passed nics, but I’m 99.9% sure I’d be allowed to own a regulated weapon.
    You can find this section on ATF’s website aswell, and that’s where I pulled the self defense snippet does. I guess by law, I could possess one for self defense under 21, but I also can’t obtain one by law under 21. The word play is ridiculous. Thank you though. This was the point I was getting at. Have a good day.
     

    chino101

    Active Member
    Jan 12, 2011
    157
    I know you've decided not to, but this part is wrong. As soon as you pass the 80% threshold, its a firearm. Might not be the first hole, but definitely once someone drills 2 holes or 1 hole and some other work, its beyond 80% and a firearm under the law.


    Thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup:

    I was going by the GCA definition of firearm and imagined drilling out the last pin hole. But you're right, at some point between "80%" and 100%, it could fit the definition of a firearm.
     

    chino101

    Active Member
    Jan 12, 2011
    157
    I tried to find the greater than 80% in the law, but couldn't. Do you know where I can read it? All I found was this:

    18 U.S. Code § 921. Definitions

    The term “firearm” means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon; (C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or (D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm.
     

    135sohc

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 27, 2013
    1,157
    "80%" is an industry created term, ATF defines it along the line of being able to accept the fire control group IIRC.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Some slight clarifications, as Maryland law currently stands, you do not have to register a home made firearm that you build yourself. You’d be breaking no law there. What IS opaque is if a an AR receiver is actually a regulated firearm. MD state police guidance to firearms dealers is that the receiver/frame of a regulated firearm must be transferred on a 77r/registered during transfer, even if it can be built in to a legal configuration.

    So an AR-15 receiver is transferred on a 77r. An HBAR rifle/carbine is not because it’s already a legal, non-regulated configuration.

    An AR-10 receiver is transferred only through a 4473 from a dealer (face-to-face legal).

    None of these if home built is required to be registered unless you are a non-MD resident and move in to Maryland.

    So the question is, is an AR-15 receiver actually a regulated firearm...no idea. MSP guidance to firearms dealers is clear they need to do a 77r. But it does NOT say in law that a receiver is a regulated firearm. I sure as heck would not transfer an AR-15 receiver face-to-face. If it was built in to a rifle, sure.

    So, if you built that 80% in to a functional receiver and then a carbine/rifle...don’t know if that would be a crime. MSP seems to want to think the receiver would/should be regulated, but the law says nothing about receivers. It just says AR-15s are banned, with the exception of the Colt HBAR Sporter (and copies there of). Formerly all AR-15s except the H AR were regulated.

    An AR pistol is of course regulated and you certainly couldn’t legally build one of those under 21.

    Unfortunately the best advice is, hold on to that 80% till you are 21. Then go to town. That and go out and buy a cheap HBAR AR if you want one today. It transfers on a 4473 and done in a few minutes.
     
    Nov 20, 2019
    29
    Some slight clarifications, as Maryland law currently stands, you do not have to register a home made firearm that you build yourself. You’d be breaking no law there. What IS opaque is if a an AR receiver is actually a regulated firearm. MD state police guidance to firearms dealers is that the receiver/frame of a regulated firearm must be transferred on a 77r/registered during transfer, even if it can be built in to a legal configuration.

    So an AR-15 receiver is transferred on a 77r. An HBAR rifle/carbine is not because it’s already a legal, non-regulated configuration.

    An AR-10 receiver is transferred only through a 4473 from a dealer (face-to-face legal).

    None of these if home built is required to be registered unless you are a non-MD resident and move in to Maryland.

    So the question is, is an AR-15 receiver actually a regulated firearm...no idea. MSP guidance to firearms dealers is clear they need to do a 77r. But it does NOT say in law that a receiver is a regulated firearm. I sure as heck would not transfer an AR-15 receiver face-to-face. If it was built in to a rifle, sure.

    So, if you built that 80% in to a functional receiver and then a carbine/rifle...don’t know if that would be a crime. MSP seems to want to think the receiver would/should be regulated, but the law says nothing about receivers. It just says AR-15s are banned, with the exception of the Colt HBAR Sporter (and copies there of). Formerly all AR-15s except the H AR were regulated.

    An AR pistol is of course regulated and you certainly couldn’t legally build one of those under 21.

    Unfortunately the best advice is, hold on to that 80% till you are 21. Then go to town. That and go out and buy a cheap HBAR AR if you want one today. It transfers on a 4473 and done in a few minutes.

    Thanks for the insight. Theoretically, in order to buy a stripped receiver, I’d have to be 21 in order to purchase it. Is it the same for possession? I’ve read on some forms on This site that AR pistol’s home made from a 80% don’t need to be registered, since I’m not manufacturing them for distribution. Did SB281 (correct next if I got the wrong one) change that? I thought 77r’s were just for transferring. Is there something for manufacturing for personal use? I’m new to the building scene, but I’m interested in it after getting into putting aftermarket products on my shotgun and hbar ar15.

    I guess the real question is that if by law I can legally possess one, the only way I could is by manufacturing. But since I’ve never tried to buy/make a ar pistol, I still have a lot to learn. If I home built the lower receiver from an 80%, I’d still have to register it correct? If I am the maker of the firearm, would I still need to register it if it’s an AR pistol? Possession under 21 is legal for self defense inside your home. So if I can legally possess one, I should be legally allowed to build one logically.
     

    rbird7282

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 6, 2012
    18,538
    Columbia
    The age question aside, if I were to buy an AR15 lower and build it into a pistol, it does NOT need to be registered with the state. Understand that the state has already “registered” the lower. If I do the same with an 80% lower, it still does not have to be registered.


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