30 Cal Can

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  • 05dodgedaytona

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 18, 2009
    3,686
    Cecil County
    Doing some research trying to figure out what 30 Cal Can to get. I have no clue what route to go. I would primarily be running it on a 300 Blackout AR pistol and rifle. Will also occasionally run it on an 308 AR and bolt gun possibly. I have been looking at the following: Dead Air Nomad L, Dead Air Sandman S, Dead Air Sandman K, Dead Air Nomad 30, Rugged Surge 762 and the Rugged Micro 762. Any recommendations on which one to go with? What are some experiences that you guys have with any of these? Looking for something that will be pretty quiet with Subs. I will be shooting both supers and subs with it. Thanks in advance.
     

    viiper

    Re-Member
    Dec 3, 2008
    110
    Carroll County
    I'm a huge fan of Dead Air, mostly because of the KeyMo mount quality, so I can quick change across some guns and suppressors. Sandman for me in this caliber, but plan to try some more of theirs.
     

    wreckdiver

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 13, 2008
    2,925
    All good choices. I’m a fan of the Sandman S. The short cans are cool, but might not be the best choice if you want something really quiet. The short cans take the edge off, but are not hearing safe IMHO.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    1.) threads like this are literally just people shouting out what can they bought or brand they like. Not saying that is not valuable information, just that you’re getting a single datapoint in most cases.

    2.) The Dead Air Nomad 30 (or L if you’re running shorter barrels, or if you don’t mind trading weight for maximum quiet) sounds good with subs and supers, and works well as a first suppressor. But don’t go with KeyMo for it. That adds too much weight (not to mention recent manufacturer QC issues). If you don’t want to use another company’s adapters (Plan A from Griffin or YHM Kurtz would be my recommendation), DA just released their Xenomorph Mount system. Believe it is roughly the same weight as Plan A.

    3.) Dead Air has a great warranty, but you pay for the advertising and lifestyle branding they do. And for all the QC they don’t do with their contract manufacturers (they are a design and branding firm at heart, they don’t make anything on their own). This has been dogging them recently on other forums and social media.

    4.) I don’t think the Sandman series is a good choice for your use case. For a 5.56 SBR you want to run full auto or in carbine classes, sure. .300blk is low pressure.

    5.) If you STILL want something heavier duty, get the rugged surge so you can run it in the S or L configuration if you want. I love my Rugged Micro but I don’t think it is for everyone. To this day, the Surge meters very well, though it is somewhat higher back pressure on semi autos vs the Nomad. Rugged has fewer QC issues and their customer service is every bit as good as DA. I have cans from most major manufacturers at this point, and all are at least good. Many are great.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    1.) threads like this are literally just people shouting out what can they bought or brand they like. Not saying that is not valuable information, just that you’re getting a single datapoint in most cases.
    Yes and over and over again... much can be learned by reading past threads first...

    I will do the same and say OSS... I think all these cans are a generation old. OSS and low back pressure are the way of the future. I hate getting gassed out and if you are running on ARs... and shoot fast, it will happen to you. Plus most people are beating their system to death, over gassing it.

    https://osssuppressors.com/suppressors/helix/

    I did put my money where my mouth is and sold my Omega and bought one of these OSS Suppressors.
     

    05dodgedaytona

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 18, 2009
    3,686
    Cecil County
    Yes and over and over again... much can be learned by reading past threads first...

    I will do the same and say OSS... I think all these cans are a generation old. OSS and low back pressure are the way of the future. I hate getting gassed out and if you are running on ARs... and shoot fast, it will happen to you. Plus most people are beating their system to death, over gassing it.

    https://osssuppressors.com/suppressors/helix/

    I did put my money where my mouth is and sold my Omega and bought one of these OSS Suppressors.

    I have read past threads. Just thought I would see if I would draw different opinions.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    1.) threads like this are literally just people shouting out what can they bought or brand they like. Not saying that is not valuable information, just that you’re getting a single datapoint in most cases.

    yup,
    IMO the main thing is attachment method, some marry you to one brand and a single muzzle device or two. Others can be swapped around with 3rd party mounts and offer dozens of different devices, my rifle cal stuff is Griffin / plan A for that reason. From there, hard to truly tell what you do or don't like about a can without owning one first. Main differences are size/weight and suppression, where I find the smaller hearing safe can to be more interesting than big cans with good suppression numbers, or tiny K-cans that still aren't hearing safe.

    OSS is interesting in that they offer something nobody else does, cans that don't need mods to semi-auto hosts to run well. I would probably own one if they had a way to swap from their DT or proprietary mounts. They are louder than other cans of their size, and haven't seen many tests that show any of them to be under the 140db "hearing safe" threshold, even if the at-ear measurements are pretty respectable. Have had good luck with rifle rated 9mm cans, lower backpressure, but still decent size and suppression. Have shot the Nomad, it's fat, and quiet, but keymo is heavy and expensive, and it is really limited swapping to others as there is less than 2" from the back of the mount to blast baffle. The Nomad L is huge, unless you are running on a bolt action SBR, can't really see the point, semis have enough port bark it doesn't matter, but will increase the length/weight substantially. I like the Rugged cans(have an Oculus in ATF jail), and really like their modular design that allows it to be run in both K and standard lengths, but same issue with getting stuck with their mounts and can't swap to 3rd party adapters. IMO the can that combines the best of all, especially for a first can is the Omega 36M. Modular K/ std length configs like the Rugged cans, has a plan A and other Charlie mounts to fit 3rd party muzzle devices, 9mm bore reduces backpressure, interchangeable end caps if you want better suppression/higher backpressure.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Good reasoning on the Omega 36m, but I would make sure it is rated for the barrel lengths OP wants to use. I haven’t shot them side by side, but have tried both at this point. I recall the Nomad sounding nicer, but I didn’t shoot them on the same rifle so it could just be the host. Also I don’t really care about modular back ends, as I tend to buy a can and leave it on a rifle. Never really bothered to adopt a particular ecosystem.

    OSS cans are another great choice if you’re not interested in modding your gun (would be a great option for a .308 AR with a 16” or shorter barrel), but they aren’t going to really let OP take advantage of the capabilities of the primary host, a .300blk pistol.

    I’m guessing OP is going through silencer shop on this?
     

    05dodgedaytona

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 18, 2009
    3,686
    Cecil County
    Most likely will be going through Silencer Shop for one. I have been looking hard at the Rugged Surge. I have talked to some people that have one and have video of them shooting with one on at an indoor range on a 300 blackout and it sounds good. With that being said I'm not oppose to more than one can of the same caliber for different guns. Might mainly focus on something for 300 blackout AR's. Main host will be a blackout pistol with 7.5 inch barrel. All my blackout's have adjustable gas blocks already. Thanks for all the info you guys are posting.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Most likely will be going through Silencer Shop for one. I have been looking hard at the Rugged Surge. I have talked to some people that have one and have video of them shooting with one on at an indoor range on a 300 blackout and it sounds good. With that being said I'm not oppose to more than one can of the same caliber for different guns. Might mainly focus on something for 300 blackout AR's. Main host will be a blackout pistol with 7.5 inch barrel. All my blackout's have adjustable gas blocks already. Thanks for all the info you guys are posting.
    You should be able to find a setting on the gas block that will work with sub/super both suppressed/unsuppressed. .300blk is pretty forgiving.

    The surge is a great can if you are willing to deal with the weight. I find myself considering purchasing one regularly.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    It is interesting to me that on MDS there seems to be no love for Thunderbeast.

    While on Sniper's Hide, lots of TB love. People over on SH tested and found 0 shift of Point of Impact with and without the can.

    I have two TB .30 cal cans. I like them. They have a quick mount that the rifle portion can be either a muzzle brake style or a flash suppressor style.

    I have a muzzle brake mount on my .308 long range rifle. And a flash suppressor mount on my SBR .300 BO rifle.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    It is interesting to me that on MDS there seems to be no love for Thunderbeast.

    While on Sniper's Hide, lots of TB love. People over on SH tested and found 0 shift of Point of Impact with and without the can.

    I have two TB .30 cal cans. I like them. They have a quick mount that the rifle portion can be either a muzzle brake style or a flash suppressor style.

    I have a muzzle brake mount on my .308 long range rifle. And a flash suppressor mount on my SBR .300 BO rifle.
    Thunder Beast makes phenomenal cans, and with the introduction of the Dominus series for hard/full auto use, have suppressors for just about anyone. Based on the selection of cans mentioned in OP, I guessed he was going through Silencer Shop, and they very rarely have that brand in stock. Much better to go to TBAC directly or via a shop with a relationship if that’s what you want. But if their cans interest OP, I can recommend wholeheartedly. Especially the Dominus SR for use on semi autos.

    It seems to me that OP is attracted to cans that are rated for use on a 240B instead of intended use, but that is fairly common with buyers new to the suppressor world. They are worried about breaking or wearing out their only can that they waited a year for, so they want something bombproof and backed by a really good warranty from a company that can be expected to be around for a long time. Absolutely understand the concern, just means they’ll be back for more when they decide they want something lighter. Which is how some of us end up with a single can . . . Per firearm.

    If OP has an NFA dealer who will accept transfers for reasonable prices (and for convenience process via SilencerShop), I can recommend my local dru. . . err . . . NFA Dealer Hansohn Bros in VA. They have some TB stuff in stock at the moment, and get shipments in regularly. But with most dealers charging $150+ for a transfer fee if you go outside their normal channels, it is usually not worth it.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Duffy's stocks ThunderBeast.

    I bought mine through them.
    Duffy’s is good people. I haven’t been over there since we moved out of MD, but will still likely use them for certain gunsmithing projects, since NoVA gunsmiths have been difficult to locate/get opinions on.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    IMHO, a rifle caliber in a semi or FA is almost never quiet enough that I don't still want to wear hearing protection. 300BLK included. Its still loud enough to hurt. Maybe on a bolt gun where you don't have the banging noise of the action. You guys may feel different here... but I am going to stick to 9mm and 22LR when I want to shoot without hearing protection.

    So from that point of view, the little of DB lost to the OSS design is far outweighed by being able to still breath and see after a few quick rounds, in a semi or FA. I don't like the taste of gas. My eyes don't like tearing up while I try and hold them open to finish my shooting. Its not "fun" shooting if you are struggling to make a follow up shot and thinking you just want it to end.

    Also, I am really unhappy with having to tune a gun for a suppressor. The first time I was going to use my SLR, I left the allen at home and had a single shot gun. I certainly don't want to need a tool to move from suppressed to unsuppressed. This had me buying into Micro MOA gas blocks which are really nice. However they are out of business and they still are a bit of a PITA to get set up. I also don't like the idea of doing nothing and just over-gassing the gun. I see these guys who spend lots on a gun, "to much for steel case ammo" and then over-gas the system with a suppressor. Thats crazy to me. I want my guns to be able to shoot fast, often in FA. That has priority for me. If thats priority for you, the OSS seems to be the best answer on the market that I have seen. Trust me, it cost me a lot of money to which to that path, and I did not "want" to. For those of us in MDTCA, since the first OSS can showed up, 4 of us have bought in while I have not seen anyone else buying traditional suppressors.

    Now if you like shooting bolt guns, punching paper or real slow shooting there may be better options... but the OSS is the way Suppressors will go in the future.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    IMHO, a rifle caliber in a semi or FA is almost never quiet enough that I don't still want to wear hearing protection. 300BLK included. Its still loud enough to hurt. Maybe on a bolt gun where you don't have the banging noise of the action. You guys may feel different here... but I am going to stick to 9mm and 22LR when I want to shoot without hearing protection.

    So from that point of view, the little of DB lost to the OSS design is far outweighed by being able to still breath and see after a few quick rounds, in a semi or FA. I don't like the taste of gas. My eyes don't like tearing up while I try and hold them open to finish my shooting. Its not "fun" shooting if you are struggling to make a follow up shot and thinking you just want it to end.

    Also, I am really unhappy with having to tune a gun for a suppressor. The first time I was going to use my SLR, I left the allen at home and had a single shot gun. I certainly don't want to need a tool to move from suppressed to unsuppressed. This had me buying into Micro MOA gas blocks which are really nice. However they are out of business and they still are a bit of a PITA to get set up. I also don't like the idea of doing nothing and just over-gassing the gun. I see these guys who spend lots on a gun, "to much for steel case ammo" and then over-gas the system with a suppressor. Thats crazy to me. I want my guns to be able to shoot fast, often in FA. That has priority for me. If thats priority for you, the OSS seems to be the best answer on the market that I have seen. Trust me, it cost me a lot of money to which to that path, and I did not "want" to. For those of us in MDTCA, since the first OSS can showed up, 4 of us have bought in while I have not seen anyone else buying traditional suppressors.

    Now if you like shooting bolt guns, punching paper or real slow shooting there may be better options... but the OSS is the way Suppressors will go in the future.
    I love your enthusiasm for machine guns, but your reasons why tuning guns sucks sort of reads like the script of an “as seen on tv” commercial. “Ugh, so tired of burning my hands on hot toast! HELP!” I rarely have to do that much adjustment to a rifle to get it tuned to the point that it is gassed appropriately, runs reliably, and doesn’t gas me (the sole exception being my AR in .308, but that was a pain to get running at all). I’m left handed, so I would say I am particularly vulnerable to back pressure. My particular use for semi auto or full auto firearms at the range would be zeroing, plinking/shooting steel for fun, or training for work. I don’t really ever get enough rounds through any of my firearms fast enough to really run into the downside of running a gun suppressed.

    To your point about semi auto .300blk, it honestly depends on what you are shooting. But I have no problem shooting subsonic ammo through an SBR without ear pro, especially if I am using subsonic ammo through a can that is specifically design to do that. In my case a Q Thunder Chicken.

    The nice thing about OSS cans is that they are never going to mess up your firearm. So if you are entirely uninterested in tuning to get the best performance out of a firearm, they are a no brainer. Particularly if you are just going to blast away fa at pumpkins or whatever with ear pro on anyway.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    I love your enthusiasm for machine guns, but your reasons why tuning guns sucks sort of reads like the script of an “as seen on tv” commercial. “Ugh, so tired of burning my hands on hot toast! HELP!” I rarely have to do that much adjustment to a rifle to get it tuned to the point that it is gassed appropriately, runs reliably, and doesn’t gas me (the sole exception being my AR in .308, but that was a pain to get running at all). I’m left handed, so I would say I am particularly vulnerable to back pressure. My particular use for semi auto or full auto firearms at the range would be zeroing, plinking/shooting steel for fun, or training for work. I don’t really ever get enough rounds through any of my firearms fast enough to really run into the downside of running a gun suppressed.

    Haha, I could not burn my hands on the hot toaster or barrel as it was only single shot! That was the entire problem! :) As for the as seen on TV, you are welcome to come see it in person, just look up MDTCA shoots and come on out, I will be happy to show you in person! ;) This is not crap I have read on the internet, its from first hand experience.

    Sorry, I do have another belief coming into play here... pretty much all gun stuff should be able to be done without the use of a tool thats not attached to the gun. So a Allen wrench, screw driver... I don't think one should need them with you when shooting.

    So what I was really getting at is adjusting the gas block every time you take the suppressor on and off. Thats a PITA. I have done it and seen it become an issue with several others. I don't like it. Thats why I went the Micro MOA way. You just slide the switch and it changes the gas setting on the gas block. Like a Suppressor on and off button that you can pressed with a bullet tip. Great design!

    As far as you shooting slow man, thats up to you. I like shooting fast, if you don't, like I said, my opinion counts for less. Its fine with me if you want to be one of those FUDDs waiting 3 seconds between shots with your suppressed gun! :lol2::lol2:;)

    To your point about semi auto .300blk, it honestly depends on what you are shooting. But I have no problem shooting subsonic ammo through an SBR without ear pro, especially if I am using subsonic ammo through a can that is specifically design to do that. In my case a Q Thunder Chicken.

    Yeah, I still think its fairly loud shooting 300BLK subsonic at any kind of faster rate of fire but it has been a while since I have heard it in person. Maybe my memory is wrong on it. I remember being impressed but not enough to buy into it myself. Sometimes those single shots here and there are not as bad but you get that bolt banging, just the action of the gun starts getting loud. I would be on the fence with 300BLK but with the price of that ammo, I don't see many shooting it fast. IMHO, I think 9mm does me just as well, so I will stick with that.

    We did some testing a while back with a FNC MG (basically a M16) and a Saker 556 can. I did some video while someone else was shooting. Even just light shooting forces the shooter to close his eyes and makes it very unenjoyable. I don't have those videos post publicly but if you would like to see, email me phiteshe@vt.edu. Here is some video I did of my Mac11 with a Gemtech MK9K suppressor. This is a large suppressor for 9mm. Even with this you can see the gas coming back and burning my eyes. Yeah I could wear some shooting glass but I don't want to "have to" to be able to shoot.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uc2maRG8r_8
    In the end I welded on a deflector shield and you can watch me burn 3 mags in a row now. Remember this is still a huge 9mm can on the gun and I still did this to avoid the gas. Watch my hand getting darker from all the gas coming out of the chamber that is now deflected down.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWsYKv7usQs
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I feel like we go over this regularly in NFA threads, but let's do it again:

    1.) I own exactly 1 firearm that once properly set up, requires gas adjustments to switch between shooting suppressed and unsuppressed. That is a 10.5" SBR in 5.56.
    2.) I use firearms for my livelihood and train with them regularly. Maybe you do to which is cool, but your posts leave the impression that this is a hobby. That is also cool. That said, I suspect our range trips are not similar.
    3.) Machine guns are fun but not something I really am into as a collector. I know this because I train with and use them regularly. They are a tool to me.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    I feel like we go over this regularly in NFA threads, but let's do it again:

    1.) I own exactly 1 firearm that once properly set up, requires gas adjustments to switch between shooting suppressed and unsuppressed. That is a 10.5" SBR in 5.56.
    2.) I use firearms for my livelihood and train with them regularly. Maybe you do to which is cool, but your posts leave the impression that this is a hobby. That is also cool. That said, I suspect our range trips are not similar.
    3.) Machine guns are fun but not something I really am into as a collector. I know this because I train with and use them regularly. They are a tool to me.

    Sorry I thought we were having fun talking about things. Yeah we have talked before. To answer your questions:
    1. No I did not keep track that you have one firearm set up that way. Do you find it a pain to switch it between suppressor and non suppressor settings? I usually pull my cans off a half hour between leaving the range to let them cool. So in the same range trip, I will shoot them both suppressed and unsuppressed almost every time.
    2. No I did not know you were a Pro. Yes its a Hobby for me for sure. I am sure our trips are different. I am going to go out on a limb here and get the OP is looking at this as a hobby too as he did not state it was for work and most here seem to be hobbyists. But I could be wrong.
    3. Yes, few people using guns for work are into MGs as a hobby as well. If you get to shoot them for free, rarely do they shell out all the cash it takes to shoot them as a hobby. Our club is not filled with Military and Police. We have a few but is not our average member. People are rarely as interested as we are in their work tools.
     

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