A Lot of Guns Being Bought

Blacksmith101 · Feb 9, 2021

Fox Business News did a report on gun sales today and one of the people interviewed said that currently 40% of gun sales were to first time buyers and 40% of those were to women.

So to analyze the total for last year in more detail (there are some references in posts #89 and #149).

Total NICS checks in 2020 = 39,695,315
Estimated number of firearms sold = 19,398,011 (See ref. post #149)
Estimated number of new gun buyers = 7,759,205 (40% of above)
Estimated number of new female gun buyers = 3,103,682 (40% of previous)

And for the estimated number of firearms sold since the inception of background checks in 1998 = 377,017,185 / 2.0436 = 184,237,957.

mangleu · Feb 13, 2021

Blacksmith101 said:
Gun sales are booming and a lot of new gun owners. Pandemics, riots, and talk of eliminating the police are selling more guns than Obama.

The NICS background checks statistics are interesting.

March of this year set a new all time record for the number of background checks in a single month.
Every month this year has set a new record for that month since the inception of NICS checks in 1998.
We are on pace to set a new yearly record of over 30 million background checks for the year.
Since it's start NICS has preformed 348,252,506 checks the current population is 329,771,658.

Here is a link to the NICS Firearm Checks: Month/Year chart:
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year.pdf/view

Reminder post 149

The more NEW gun owners we get the better the amendment is secured. We need to constantly be growing the popularity of firearms so there will always be a majority in favor of its protection.

Bisleyfan44 · Feb 13, 2021

mangleu said:
The more NEW gun owners we get the better the amendment is secured.

ONLY if they're willing to defend it. Otherwise numbers dont mean anything.

Pinecone · Feb 15, 2021

Blacksmith101 said:
Fox Business News did a report on gun sales today and one of the people interviewed said that currently 40% of gun sales were to first time buyers and 40% of those were to women.

So to analyze the total for last year in more detail (there are some references in posts #89 and #149).

Total NICS checks in 2020 = 39,695,315
Estimated number of firearms sold = 19,398,011 (See ref. post #149)
Estimated number of new gun buyers = 7,759,205 (40% of above)
Estimated number of new female gun buyers = 3,103,682 (40% of previous)

And for the estimated number of firearms sold since the inception of background checks in 1998 = 377,017,185 / 2.0436 = 184,237,957.

How come only 19 million firearms sold with over 39 million NICS checks.

So each NICS check is for 1/2 a firearm? Or are half the people being denied?

Blacksmith101 · Feb 15, 2021

Pinecone said:
How come only 19 million firearms sold with over 39 million NICS checks.

So each NICS check is for 1/2 a firearm? Or are half the people being denied?

From FBI NICS check page. https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/nics

Since launching in 1998, more than 300 million checks have been done, leading to more than 1.5 million denials.

NICS checks are used for other things beside buying firearms. Things like carry permits in some states, ammo sales, prepawn and pawn redemption and consignment checks in Maryland, etc.

Printed on their reports of the numbers of checks where the numbers were taken from is a disclaimer that NICS checks do not represent firearms sales. Up thread are posts where I explain what I based my estimates on.

Ponder_MD · Feb 15, 2021

Bisleyfan44 said:
ONLY if they're willing to defend it. Otherwise numbers dont mean anything.

Gun dealer: "Congratulations on your purchase!"
Gov't: "Hand it over."

Seriously, I think a lot of these first time owners are buying them because they are Progressives who feel threatened. They still hope for mass gun confiscation and would sell them back to the gov't on the premise of "guns are illegal, I'm safe now."

JMangle · Feb 15, 2021

Like the blacksmith said - quite a few NICS checks for things other than buying a gun.
My wife and I moved to a new states, got new carry permits, so that was 2 checks without a gun being bought.
I don't know how the numbers work when in Mississippi my carry permit is the background check - I still have to fill out the ATF form, but I don't know if that gets counted in the NICS total.

Unrelated, but I just bought my first suppressor today, so now I begin waiting. I get to add 1 to that growing total.

DaemonAssassin · Feb 19, 2021

Blacksmith101 said:
Fox Business News did a report on gun sales today and one of the people interviewed said that currently 40% of gun sales were to first time buyers and 40% of those were to women.

So to analyze the total for last year in more detail (there are some references in posts #89 and #149).

Total NICS checks in 2020 = 39,695,315
Estimated number of firearms sold = 19,398,011 (See ref. post #149)
Estimated number of new gun buyers = 7,759,205 (40% of above)
Estimated number of new female gun buyers = 3,103,682 (40% of previous)

And for the estimated number of firearms sold since the inception of background checks in 1998 = 377,017,185 / 2.0436 = 184,237,957.

Pinecone said:
How come only 19 million firearms sold with over 39 million NICS checks.

So each NICS check is for 1/2 a firearm? Or are half the people being denied?

Blacksmith101 said:
From FBI NICS check page. https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/nics

NICS checks are used for other things beside buying firearms. Things like carry permits, ammo sales, HQL's, etc.

Printed on their reports of the numbers of checks where the numbers were taken from is a disclaimer that NICS checks do not represent firearms sales. Up thread are posts where I explain what I based my estimates on.

JMangle said:
Like the blacksmith said - quite a few NICS checks for things other than buying a gun.
My wife and I moved to a new states, got new carry permits, so that was 2 checks without a gun being bought.
I don't know how the numbers work when in Mississippi my carry permit is the background check - I still have to fill out the ATF form, but I don't know if that gets counted in the NICS total.

Unrelated, but I just bought my first suppressor today, so now I begin waiting. I get to add 1 to that growing total.

Straight from the FBI page about NICS.

National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

The NICS is all about saving lives and protecting people from harm—by not letting firearms fall into the wrong hands. It also ensures the timely transfer of firearms to eligible buyers.
NICS Process
When a person tries to buy a firearm, the seller, known as a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL), contacts NICS electronically or by phone. The prospective buyer fills out the*ATF form, and the FFL relays that information to the NICS. The NICS staff performs a background check on the buyer. That background check verifies the buyer does not have a criminal record or isn't otherwise ineligible to purchase or own a firearm. Since launching in 1998, more than 300 million checks have been done, leading to more than 1.5 million denials.
NICS Availability
The NICS is customarily available by phone 17 hours a day, seven days a week, including holidays (except for Christmas). Calls may be monitored and recorded for any authorized purpose. The NICS E-Check is available 24/7.

NICS Services

The NICS provides full service to the FFLs in 30 states, five U.S. territories, and the District of Columbia. The NICS provides partial service to seven states. The remaining 13 states perform their own checks through the NICS.

Now then, NICS is for firearms and firearm accessories, like suppressors. Furthermore NICS is available to FFL holders for the sole purpose of the 4473. NFA branch does their background checks against NICS too, for Form 1's, Form 4's, and RPQ's.

NICS is not for running a background check for the HQL or a carry permit. Those background checks are done by the state(s) through other databases that they have access to.

JamesDong · Feb 19, 2021

Took over an hour for me to go through today in Virginia. I breezed right through but it took FOREVER for them to check out the trade SN I used.

Blacksmith101 · Feb 20, 2021

DaemonAssassin said:
Straight from the FBI page about NICS.

Now then, NICS is for firearms and firearm accessories, like suppressors. Furthermore NICS is available to FFL holders for the sole purpose of the 4473. NFA branch does their background checks against NICS too, for Form 1's, Form 4's, and RPQ's.

NICS is not for running a background check for the HQL or a carry permit. Those background checks are done by the state(s) through other databases that they have access to.

I believe if you check you will find that one of those databases the MSP checks is NICS.

DaemonAssassin · Feb 20, 2021

Blacksmith101 said:
I believe if you check you will find that one of those databases the MSP checks is NICS.

MSP is the sole POC with NICS for regulated firearms in MD. But MSP does not use NICS for the HQL or carry permit background check.

Blacksmith101 · Feb 20, 2021

DaemonAssassin said:
MSP is the sole POC with NICS for regulated firearms in MD. But MSP does not use NICS for the HQL or carry permit background check.

FIFY

However a search did turn this up which is probably why I thought NICS Checks were part of the HQL process conducted by the MSP>
https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=133986

Old October 2nd, 2013, 06:31 PM #1
Vassago
Junior Member

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MoCo
Posts: 86

HQL Process update
So I filled out HQL form yesterday and sent in live scan prints and today checked status on MSP and looks like I only have 2 things left pending before they are done with my HQL application.

Application\License Feee Completed Oct/01/13
MVA Photo Incomplete
LiveScan Completed Oct/02/13
Training Completed Oct/02/13
NICS Completed Oct/02/13
METERS Completed Oct/02/13
CJIS Completed Oct/02/13
MAFSS Completed Oct/02/13
JIS Completed Oct/02/13
DJS Not Applicable Oct/02/13
DHMH unchecked

DaemonAssassin · Feb 21, 2021

Blacksmith101 said:
FIFY

However a search did turn this up which is probably why I thought NICS Checks were part of the HQL process conducted by the MSP>

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=133986

Based on that, it makes sense as to why you were thinking it was used for other types of background checks.

Believe me when I say this, I thought the same thing till I got my HQL and later on my carry permit. The HQL looks into all the MD databases. My carry permit I thought was going to through NICS, but the Sheriff said that they can't run normal background checks through NICS, unless they are transferring a firearm. Which the sheriff's office does not have the ability to do, because they don't have a FFL.

Pinecone · Feb 21, 2021

Blacksmith101 said:
From FBI NICS check page. https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/nics

NICS checks are used for other things beside buying firearms. Things like carry permits in some states, ammo sales, prepawn and pawn redemption and consignment checks in Maryland, etc.

Printed on their reports of the numbers of checks where the numbers were taken from is a disclaimer that NICS checks do not represent firearms sales. Up thread are posts where I explain what I based my estimates on.

1.5 million denials from 300 million checks leaves 298.5 million approvals.

AFAIK NICS is not allowed to be used for anything except firearms transactions.

I remember comment about this in the thread about NICS checks for ammo sales in MD.

The pawn thing, I did not know, but still, I cannot see how in 2020 there were 39 million checks, but only 19 million firearms transferred.

Blacksmith101 · Feb 21, 2021

DaemonAssassin said:
Based on that, it makes sense as to why you were thinking it was used for other types of background checks.

Believe me when I say this, I thought the same thing till I got my HQL and later on my carry permit. The HQL looks into all the MD databases. My carry permit I thought was going to through NICS, but the Sheriff said that they can't run normal background checks through NICS, unless they are transferring a firearm. Which the sheriff's office does not have the ability to do, because they don't have a FFL.

IIRC back in 2013 either in the thread I posted or another thread in the same time period there was a list of all the databases the MSP checks. in case anyone wants to do searching.

Allen65 · Feb 21, 2021

Pinecone said:
AFAIK NICS is not allowed to be used for anything except firearms transactions.

I remember comment about this in the thread about NICS checks for ammo sales in MD.

You're probably talking about this post:

Allen65 said:
On the ammo transfer issue, see 28 CFR § 25.6:

§ 25.6 Accessing records in the system.

(a) FFLs may initiate a NICS background check only in connection with a proposed firearm transfer as required by the Brady Act. FFLs are strictly prohibited from initiating a NICS background check for any other purpose.

Absent a change to Federal law (as implemented by the Federal regulation cited above), Maryland would have to set up its own background check system for ammo, which wouldn't be cheap to implement. But, hey, with a legislative supermajority, they can just raise all the additional taxes needed to do it.

TheOriginalMexicanBob · Feb 21, 2021

Allen65 said:
You're probably talking about this post:

Absent a change to Federal law (as implemented by the Federal regulation cited above), Maryland would have to set up its own background check system for ammo, which wouldn't be cheap to implement. But, hey, with a legislative supermajority, they can just raise all the additional taxes needed to do it.

When did the MGA care about additional taxes? They would simply call it a "user fee" and not a tax and pretend only people buying guns and ammunition would bear the financial responsibility.

tourrider · Feb 21, 2021

I was shocked Friday when I stopped by my favorite shop in my area. For over a year, I’ve been trying to find a Hellcat to handle. My shop always had the same answer, he said he randomly gets one or two, and they are gone. After a couple months I quit stopping, and then into the fall I gave up. I figured their shelves would be empty, but Friday I stopped in to see if they had a FN509c. I was very surprised they had a lot of stock, including 6 Hellcats. So I bough one. Kid said the checks are taking one to two hours to come back. One guy there was still waiting 1.5 hours. Kid put in my info, and 1 minute later he turns and said, you’re good to go. They limit ammo sales to 2 boxes, but he let me have 5 boxes fmj at a decent price, and threw in a box of Hornady CD and a DeSantis IWB slim tuck holster.

I’m glad I stopped in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Blacksmith101 · Feb 21, 2021

Pinecone said:
1.5 million denials from 300 million checks leaves 298.5 million approvals.

AFAIK NICS is not allowed to be used for anything except firearms transactions.

I remember comment about this in the thread about NICS checks for ammo sales in MD.

The pawn thing, I did not know, but still, I cannot see how in 2020 there were 39 million checks, but only 19 million firearms transferred.

From the FBI web site.

Twenty-five states issue ATF-qualified alternate permits that may substitute for a NICS background check. Before issuing or renewing an alternate permit, which is only valid for a specified time, the state must complete a NICS background check. A person with an active qualified permit is not required to have another NICS background check.

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/about-nics

If you look at the number of NICS checks by state you will see they must be used for something other than firearms transfer. Look at the yearly totals for 2020 for Illinois (7,455,065 checks 12,671,821 population) and Kentucky (3,330,462 checks 4,467,673 population) for example. For comparison Maryland (302,563 checks 6,045,680 population).
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/nics_firearm_checks_-_month_year_by_state.pdf/view

Note in Allen's post #296 the quote is a specific limit on FFL's however the rules for POC's such as Maryland State Police allow access for other specific purposes.
From the Federal Register
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1998-10-30/pdf/98-29109.pdf

(j) Access to the NICS Index for purposes unrelated to NICS back ground checks required by the Brady Act.Access to the NICS Index for purposes unrelated to NICS background checks pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(t) shall be limited to uses for the purpose of1) Providing information to Federal,state, or local criminal justice agencies in connection with the issuance of a firearm-related or explosives-related permit or license, including permits or licenses to possess, acquire, or transfer a firearm, or to carry a concealed firearm, or to import, manufacture, deal in, or purchase explosives; or(2) Responding to an inquiry from the ATF in connection with a civil or criminal law enforcement activity relating to the Gun Control Act (18U.S.C. Chapter 44) or the National Firearms Act (26 U.S.C. Chapter 53).

Allen65 · Feb 21, 2021

Blacksmith101 said:
Note in Allen's post #296 the quote is a specific limit on FFL's however the rules for POC's such as Maryland State Police allow access for other specific purposes.
From the Federal Register
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1998-10-30/pdf/98-29109.pdf

The text of bill HB0175 is pretty specific, though:
5–703.

(A)BEFORE THE SALE OR TRANSFER OF AMMUNITION,AN AMMUNITION VENDOR SHALL:

(1)CONFIRM IDENTIFICATION OF THE PURCHASER OR TRANSFEREE THROUGH THE PRESENTATION OF A DRIVER’S LICENSE OR OTHER GOVERNMENT–ISSUED IDENTIFICATION;AND
(2)CONDUCT A BACKGROUND CHECK ON THE PURCHASER OR TRANSFEREE THROUGH THE NICS INDEX.

"Ammunition Vendor" is defined here:
5–701.

(A)IN THIS SUBTITLE THE FOLLOWING WORDS HAVE THE MEANINGS INDICATED.
(B)“AMMUNITION”HAS THE MEANING STATED IN §5–133.1 OF THIS TITLE.(C)“AMMUNITION VENDOR”MEANS A PERSON ENGAGED IN THE BUSINESS OF SELLING AMMUNITION.

It makes no mention of MSP using NICS, acting as an authorized agent. And even with the expanded list of other specific purposes a GOV entity can use NICS for in the Federal regulation, there's no mention of ammunition transfers as an allowed purpose.

A Lot of Guns Being Bought

The #1 community for Gun Owners of the Northeast

Member Benefits:

Grumpy Old Man

Active Member

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Grumpy Old Man

Ultimate Member

Handsome Engineer

Why should we Free BSD?

Banned

Grumpy Old Man

Why should we Free BSD?

Grumpy Old Man

Why should we Free BSD?

Ultimate Member

Grumpy Old Man

Ultimate Member

Ultimate Member

Grumpy

Grumpy Old Man

Ultimate Member

Users who are viewing this thread

Log in

Forum statistics