Working on Pistol Load Accuracy

I loaded up a ladder with 3 loads per charge using .357 cases for 158gr .357 dia and 140gr .358 dia.
Seperated loads by .3grains
At 1.580" the 140gr rests just before/on the cone of the cylinder throat.
The 158gr I'm at 1.600"

At just over 800fps, I started to see improvement of the 158gr bullet and even had 3 bullets nearly touching
I'll work up some more loads with .1grain increments around that

Chrono stopped working on me after i fell over in the wind so I did not get chrono data on the 140g bullets.
3 shot Groups for nearly every charge I tried were around 3". I'm going to put the 140g bullets aside till I can swage them to .357"

So,
I ran the 3 load ladder and found 3 points where the accuracy was within 2.5" at 25 yards. I'll build up 5 across those 3 loads next.

I pulled the cylinder of my 686 and was testing the .357 sized (got a .357 sizer in today) 140gr bullets and Man they were tight after the initial cleaning. I cleaned some more and scrubbed and I think there was some lead building on the throats. One I really had to keep scrubbing to get it to the point that a jacketed .357 bullet would push through with hand pressure using a brass rod. I think it was lead cause the Hoppes was not cleaning it up and looked like streaks under the light.

Is this normal? Should I be getting build up in the throats?.

Melnic said:

So,
I ran the 3 load ladder and found 3 points where the accuracy was within 2.5" at 25 yards. I'll build up 5 across those 3 loads next.

I pulled the cylinder of my 686 and was testing the .357 sized (got a .357 sizer in today) 140gr bullets and Man they were tight after the initial cleaning. I cleaned some more and scrubbed and I think there was some lead building on the throats. One I really had to keep scrubbing to get it to the point that a jacketed .357 bullet would push through with hand pressure using a brass rod. I think it was lead cause the Hoppes was not cleaning it up and looked like streaks under the light.

Is this normal? Should I be getting build up in the throats?.

Click to expand...

This should answer your question.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_lowdownleadfoul_201002/99962

John from MD said:

This should answer your question.

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/ammunition_st_lowdownleadfoul_201002/99962

Click to expand...

Thx, I read the article. I thought since I did not see leading near the muzzle I was home free. Evidently not.

Back to the bevel base comment you made earlier in the thread. Sounds like that may be working against me here. Bevel base, light charge, gas cutting. I am indeed on the light side I think on velocities. Every time I have gone to the range to shoot, if I took Lead and Powder coated bullets, I have always started with the lightest charge and lead bullets. This last trip today, it was ONLY lead bullets.

My goal is to get those Powder coated 140 grain bullets shooting well. Maybe I should just be concentrating on those?
My throats are .357". I have a .357" sizer now as well as the one I expanded out to .358".

I should NOT be getting this leading with the Powder coated bullets right?

I already sized down the PC 140gr bullets down to .357" already. Maybe I should not have?

I think I should work with just the .357" PC 140 bullets for the next range session now that the revolver is cleaned up.

Melnic said:

Thx, I read the article. I thought since I did not see leading near the muzzle I was home free. Evidently not.

Back to the bevel base comment you made earlier in the thread. Sounds like that may be working against me here. Bevel base, light charge, gas cutting. I am indeed on the light side I think on velocities. Every time I have gone to the range to shoot, if I took Lead and Powder coated bullets, I have always started with the lightest charge and lead bullets. This last trip today, it was ONLY lead bullets.

My goal is to get those Powder coated 140 grain bullets shooting well. Maybe I should just be concentrating on those?
My throats are .357". I have a .357" sizer now as well as the one I expanded out to .358".

I should NOT be getting this leading with the Powder coated bullets right?

I already sized down the PC 140gr bullets down to .357" already. Maybe I should not have?

I think I should work with just the .357" PC 140 bullets for the next range session now that the revolver is cleaned up.

Click to expand...

No, you should not. I also suggest you buy a package of these. They are great for cleaning lube and lead out of cylinders.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-clean...-brushes/revolver-chamber-brush-prod1290.aspx

thx, Picked up chamber brush at bass pro this morning before work.
Went out at lunch with Powder coated 140gr swc in 357 cases and 3.0-4.5gr of bullesye
What a difference only shooting PC bullets. When I was all done, I had a spare sized bullet by itself and they pushed right through the cylinders seemingly easier than after I cleaned them yesterday.
No leading in the throat and no splatter one the areas around the gap today.
I found 3 loads hovering around 4.0gr of bullseye. What is it with 4.0gr bullseye, its so far my most accurate charge in both 45acp and even 9mm. Maybe its just luck of the draw with the bullet weights I'm using?

around 4.0gr, the velocity did not move up/down much and hovered about 800fps.
3 sets of 3 round groups were less than 2" so I'll run up 5 rounds of each next. worse groups were about 3"
Incidentally, I purchased a rail and threw a red dot onto the top, makes aiming much easier now and taking some of the human factor out of testing. I don't have a long eye relief pistol scope.

Melnic said:

thx, Picked up chamber brush at bass pro this morning before work.
Went out at lunch with Powder coated 140gr swc in 357 cases and 3.0-4.5gr of bullesye
What a difference only shooting PC bullets. When I was all done, I had a spare sized bullet by itself and they pushed right through the cylinders seemingly easier than after I cleaned them yesterday.
No leading in the throat and no splatter one the areas around the gap today.
I found 3 loads hovering around 4.0gr of bullseye. What is it with 4.0gr bullseye, its so far my most accurate charge in both 45acp and even 9mm. Maybe its just luck of the draw with the bullet weights I'm using?

around 4.0gr, the velocity did not move up/down much and hovered about 800fps.
3 sets of 3 round groups were less than 2" so I'll run up 5 rounds of each next. worse groups were about 3"
Incidentally, I purchased a rail and threw a red dot onto the top, makes aiming much easier now and taking some of the human factor out of testing. I don't have a long eye relief pistol scope.

Click to expand...

Hmmm, sounds like something might be arranged for an anniversary gift.

Are these offhand groups , or ammo testing mode ?

What groups does the 686 do with other ammo of known accuracy potential ?

What accuracy does your handloads give in other revolvers of known accuracy ?

Biggfoot44 said:

Are these offhand groups , or ammo testing mode ?

What groups does the 686 do with other ammo of known accuracy potential ?

What accuracy does your handloads give in other revolvers of known accuracy ?

Click to expand...

From generic pistol rest.

I have not used any factory ammo on it yet except the day I got it and put 6 rounds of jacketed 38 through it at just 25 feet. I have very little factory 38/357

My other revolvers which run38spl are almost 100 years old sooooo..

I have a large mental database of accuracy testing DA Revolvers , up to and including very high round counts that would make an armorer blanche .

Cutting to the chase , the all inclusive global accuracy median for S&W's is aprox 1.5 inch @ 25yds , with most falling within 1.25 to 1.75 ( with ammunition of known accuracy ) .

A S&W that did 2.5 to 3.0 inches ( with ammunition of known accuracy ) would have some blatant defect(s) , ie buggered crown or disgusting forcing cone .

FWIW - Simply being very worn with lots of play and slow timing , but absent crown damage , will still do sub 2.0 in .( As long as you cycle with enough vigor to lock up with inertia .)

[ Being more of a mere mortal than John from Md , I made my catagory cut off at 1.0in and under . The difference between any given group between one hole and 3/4 in c to c is as likely to be Me as the gun & ammo . ]


What's Ammunition of Known Accuracy ?

Back when I was loading a bunch of it , I knew the expectations of 158 commercial cast, 3.2gr 231 , and CCI Std primer . ( 1.0in or less in gun of consummate accuracy potential .)

For factory loads , or loads new to you , is two step process . First use a gun of known accuracy capability to test the ammo . Then test that ammo in gun being tested and compare .

Starting from scratch with unknown gun and random ammo ( aka double variable equation ) is random crap shooting .

Biggfoot44 said:

I have a large mental database of accuracy testing DA Revolvers , up to and including very high round counts that would make an armorer blanche .

Cutting to the chase , the all inclusive global accuracy median for S&W's is aprox 1.5 inch @ 25yds , with most falling within 1.25 to 1.75 ( with ammunition of known accuracy ) .

A S&W that did 2.5 to 3.0 inches ( with ammunition of known accuracy ) would have some blatant defect(s) , ie buggered crown or disgusting forcing cone .

FWIW - Simply being very worn with lots of play and slow timing , but absent crown damage , will still do sub 2.0 in .( As long as you cycle with enough vigor to lock up with inertia .)

[ Being more of a mere mortal than John from Md , I made my catagory cut off at 1.0in and under . The difference between any given group between one hole and 3/4 in c to c is as likely to be Me as the gun & ammo . ]


What's Ammunition of Known Accuracy ?

Back when I was loading a bunch of it , I knew the expectations of 158 commercial cast, 3.2gr 231 , and CCI Std primer . ( 1.0in or less in gun of consummate accuracy potential .)

For factory loads , or loads new to you , is two step process . First use a gun of known accuracy capability to test the ammo . Then test that ammo in gun being tested and compare .

Starting from scratch with unknown gun and random ammo ( aka double variable equation ) is random crap shooting .

Click to expand...

Thank you for recognizing my place in life.

Your system is sound and gives a good starting point otherwise, as you say, it's a crap shoot which no one can afford today.

Bigfoot ,that is sound advice and I’ve done that with an AR and Bolt guns using Federal Gold Metal Match but I have 2 problems of ammo availability (can you link me to buy a box of ammo of known accuracy that is actually in stock)? Plus I don’t have another revolver to test.

If making a known good load can be done with purchased Bullets I’d need to know who has that and the recommended OAL with the 3.2gr w231 which I have.

Thx


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Whatever the COL comes out when crimped in the crimp groove .