How hard is a weld?

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    I ask because I was fixing the timing in my Colt OP. I tried stretching the hand, but no go. It might be able to go further, but I can’t comfortably get it there. It’s definitely too short, especially the 2nd hand.

    I ordered a repro from Numerich and I finally decided to swap it. Well, dimensions were pretty good without needing much adjustment.

    Except the F-ing 2nd hand is .050” too short. I played with it for an hour and a half and measured all the things. It is just plain too short.

    So after about a dozen practice bolts and screws filling in the flat head and Philips head slots on them with my welder, I welded up the new hand. Added about .100” of material or a little less. Then went to town with jewelers files and stones. Timing is PERFECT now in SA and DA.

    I am just curious, how long it is likely to stay that way? I assume a weld is going to be softer than a lot of machined steel parts. But looking at the original hand, it does not seem to be hardened steel (otherwise peening to lengthen it would snap it). The reproduction part actually seems like it is a slightly harder grade of steel (I question being able to peen it without cracking).

    I mean, this old girl is a 1927 NJ SP issue and I’d imagine she’s seen MANY thousands of rounds over her life.

    I guess I’ll find out how well my welded new hand works out. Hopefully at least a few thousand rounds.

    PS a heck of a lot more smithing that swapping a part in one of my Glocks or ARs, that’s for sure! Pic is right before closing her up for the last time with the new hand.
     

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    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Before someone asks, those are empty casings in the cylinder to ensure shell clearance was correct.
     

    Bertfish

    Throw bread on me
    Mar 13, 2013
    17,606
    White Marsh, MD
    Welds in general are very hard. But theres a lot which goes in to exactly how hard. Base material, electrode material, welding conditions.

    We used to weld cutter heads and pumps with a process we referred to as "hard facing". Passes of a weld rod called Stoody which was harder than woodpecker lips and meant to be a protective surface to wear out before the base component did (oftentimes a very expensive casting).
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,297
    Underground Bunker
    So much to welding , matching filler wire to the material you are welding . Size of parts and the best way to weld Tig , Mig or stick .

    In general terms the weld is stronger then the parent metal . Some welds and material will take the temper out of the steel . Hardly an easy answer with so many variables .
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    Thanks guys! Yeah I did some quick research that said the exact same thing.

    As for what was used, DC flux welder on lowest heat and wire speed .030” wire.

    TIG would have been a better option I know. I just don’t happen to possess a $600 TIG welder. But I am thinking I will some day. I use my flux code welder often enough. Just not really for delicate repairs (mostly for things like reattaching exhaust hangers, welding steel pipe, welding gates, etc.)

    Well I guess at worst my $26 hand wears out sooner than I’d hoped. Though the very tiny amount I could find on flux core welds is it is probably has hard or harder than the hand so long as the weld wasn’t bad or inconsistent, though hardness and wear resistance aren’t necessarily correlated as it is as much about grain structure and base material for wear resistance.

    I’ll assume I did a good job :-)

    Also assuming I don’t want to try to heat treat and quench it.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,725
    Socialist State of Maryland
    I'm sure Dave will jump in if I wrong but I think you should draw the temper of the top part of the hand and then put a mildt case on it with Kasenit. That will insure that the hand didn't become brittle from the welding and the mild case will keep the wear down.
     

    TexasBob

    Another day in Paradise
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 25, 2012
    2,485
    Space Coast
    Not brain surgery but you need the proper tools and training to do it right, then there is the gorilla welding, ugly as hell but strong.:rolleyes:
     

    Doco Overboard

    Ultimate Member
    Sometimes if you take the old part, take a file to it to see how hard it is and where. Then you can polish it and then heat it up again until it loses its magnetic ability. Usually orange. Thats about 1500 deg. Drop it in warm water. If it breaks you need to quench in oil, medium carbon steels do better with water quenching, Higher carbon does better in oil and can break when quenched in water when the structure tightens up. See if its still hard and where. Polish it heat it up again till its the same color, drop it in oil, see how hard it is and where again.
    If it wont harden at all it needs to be case hardened because its low carbon steel.
    To draw a part of it back because it will be brittle with any of the two quenches, polish and heat up again until it turns blue then let it air cool. Use a vise as a heat sink to be able to work any other part that you may need.
    Ghetto tech here for when I used to make trigger parts when building ML rifles. I never had any luck with long term welds holding up but in not a welder either.
    Follow all safety precautions and good luck, some times oil will light up and smoke a whole lot. Tranny fluid is cheap and works good used motor oil is okay too.
    You can practice on some of the wire bits that they sell in hobby shops or hardware stores or even screw drivers that are broken.
    What sucks about small gun parts is your hesitant to do anything to them because they're hard to replace especially if you fashioned them out of something ordinary and you don't want to screw them up. The more care spent polishing the better you can see the colors change.
     

    Ranchero50

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 15, 2012
    5,411
    Hagerstown MD
    What's been said above, find out how hard it is and make it as hard as it needs to be. I assume that they would want the hand part to be a little softer than what it's actuating.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,673
    What's been said above, find out how hard it is and make it as hard as it needs to be. I assume that they would want the hand part to be a little softer than what it's actuating.

    Kind of my thought. Better to wear out the hand than the cylinder lugs.

    The metal of the weld seems fairly hard. The file was not taking material off quick. Easier to take material off the hand itself than the weld.
     

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