Did I pick the right brake?

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  • gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,156
    Mt Airy
    I'm terrible at researching stuff before I make a purchase, then I start thinking about it after the fact. Here's the latest iteration of this:

    Yesterday I dropped off a barrel to get threaded for a brake, but I wanted one that I could eventually thread a can over. I don't have the can yet, and may even Form 1 one at some point. Anyways, it appears that each manufacturer uses different threads, and by going with one brand of brake, I'm committing myself to that brand of can down the road. I picked a SilencerCo brake.

    Did I do good? Is there another option that might have more universal threads that I should look at? If SilencerCo's threads are proprietary, am I eliminating the Form 1 option down the road?

    These are all questions I should have had answered 24 hours ago, but new info leads to new questions.
     

    toppkatt

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 22, 2017
    1,185
    I'm not an expert but I would think there would be an adapter available if the can bought doesn't match the threading of the barrel, or one could be made fairly easily on a lathe by someone who knows what they are doing.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    OP I think you are likely confusing barrel threading with the attachment method suppressors use. Things get a little proprietary in big bore land, but the majority of barrel threads (e.g. the threads to attach the muzzle device to the barrel) are fairly standard. What is largely proprietary is the attachment method suppressor companies use to interface between silencer and muzzle device. Even that has changed a lot in recent years. And muzzle devices are fairly cheap. You can probably return it or sell it used and get all/most of your money back if you don’t want to use the ASR mounting system.

    You are going to need to provide more information before anyone can really tell you if you “screwed up.” What is this barrel for? What cartridge/caliber is it/will it be? What did you have the barrel threaded to?
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    barrel threading is basically standard for a caliber, usually 1/2x28 for 22 cals, and 5/8x24 for 30 cal, you could use a direct thread can with either, but they have drawbacks and need to be torqued to avoid coming loose, and threads are easily damaged. Most use some form of QD system with tougher threads or slots in their rile cal cans like the ASR mount you bought. Most manufacturers do have their own QD/attachment systems, but 1.375X24 modular threading in a can to accept a mount is probably the most popular(Sico Omega 300 mount). This will allow Griffin's taper mount, Sico's ASR, YHM's QD and DA's Keymo to work with a LOT of cans. You have to check clearance specs for a given muzzle device, some are too long to fit all cans that can take that mount. All the mounts have their good and bad attributes, the ASR is solid and simple, 2 turns to attach and turn the lock ring. It adds about 3/4" length and a couple oz to a can, and you need to access the lock ring, so you can't run handguards long enough to cover it. The Keymo is awesome, really fast, convenient and secure with no access to the collar needed, slide straight on and 1/2 turn to lock, but adds the most length, weight and cost. YHM's is a simple 2 turn with a detent to lock, works well enough, adds length, but inexpensive. My chosen rifle cal QD is the Griffin Taper mount. Lightest, smallest, least added length, widest variety of mounts, and the simplest, about 3 turns then locks with a taper. Only downside is it takes a little feel to tighten it right, won't come loose unless it is way under tightened, but it's easy to over-tighten, as it gets tighter as it heats up, and can take a ton of force to remove a hot can.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,156
    Mt Airy
    OP I think you are likely confusing barrel threading with the attachment method suppressors use. Things get a little proprietary in big bore land, but the majority of barrel threads (e.g. the threads to attach the muzzle device to the barrel) are fairly standard. What is largely proprietary is the attachment method suppressor companies use to interface between silencer and muzzle device. Even that has changed a lot in recent years. And muzzle devices are fairly cheap. You can probably return it or sell it used and get all/most of your money back if you don’t want to use the ASR mounting system.

    You are going to need to provide more information before anyone can really tell you if you “screwed up.” What is this barrel for? What cartridge/caliber is it/will it be? What did you have the barrel threaded to?

    The bolded part is the part I'm concerned with.

    The barrel is for an AR-10, and it's getting 5/8-24 threads cut to attach the brake...all standard and normal stuff. But the brake has a second, larger set of threads to attach a can, and I don't know if there was a smarter option than the SiCo brake I went with.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,156
    Mt Airy
    barrel threading is basically standard for a caliber, usually 1/2x28 for 22 cals, and 5/8x24 for 30 cal, you could use a direct thread can with either, but they have drawbacks and need to be torqued to avoid coming loose, and threads are easily damaged. Most use some form of QD system with tougher threads or slots in their rile cal cans like the ASR mount you bought. Most manufacturers do have their own QD/attachment systems, but 1.375X24 modular threading in a can to accept a mount is probably the most popular(Sico Omega 300 mount). This will allow Griffin's taper mount, Sico's ASR, YHM's QD and DA's Keymo to work with a LOT of cans. You have to check clearance specs for a given muzzle device, some are too long to fit all cans that can take that mount. All the mounts have their good and bad attributes, the ASR is solid and simple, 2 turns to attach and turn the lock ring. It adds about 3/4" length and a couple oz to a can, and you need to access the lock ring, so you can't run handguards long enough to cover it. The Keymo is awesome, really fast, convenient and secure with no access to the collar needed, slide straight on and 1/2 turn to lock, but adds the most length, weight and cost. YHM's is a simple 2 turn with a detent to lock, works well enough, adds length, but inexpensive. My chosen rifle cal QD is the Griffin Taper mount. Lightest, smallest, least added length, widest variety of mounts, and the simplest, about 3 turns then locks with a taper. Only downside is it takes a little feel to tighten it right, won't come loose unless it is way under tightened, but it's easy to over-tighten, as it gets tighter as it heats up, and can take a ton of force to remove a hot can.

    So there's a third piece I will need? A mount/adapter?

    I'm sorry, I never paid any attention to this stuff in the past, because I never thought I'd be considering this. It is all new to me.

    For reference, this is the brake I got, but for 30 cal

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016895290?pid=262276
     

    budman93

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 1, 2013
    5,267
    Frederick County
    Why do you need to buy a brake for mounting a suppressor that you don't have plans to get yet? Throw a standard muzzle device on and then when you buy a can you can get one to work with it.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,156
    Mt Airy
    Why do you need to buy a brake for mounting a suppressor that you don't have plans to get yet? Throw a standard muzzle device on and then when you buy a can you can get one to work with it.

    Buy once, cry once. No sense in buying two brakes and paying twice to have someone install them properly. Worst case is I never get the suppressor and spend a little more on a brake than I needed to.
     

    Sundazes

    My brain hurts
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 13, 2006
    21,287
    Arkham
    Buy once, cry once. No sense in buying two brakes and paying twice to have someone install them properly. Worst case is I never get the suppressor and spend a little more on a brake than I needed to.

    Have you decided on the can? The mounts (muzzle break/flash hider/QD) are usually proprietary to the manufacturer. They can even be proprietary to the model(s) of can.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    On a AR10, I would go with an OSS suppressor myself. ARs tend to put a bit of gas back in your face.

    That said, I like silencerco Omega a lot, I just sold mine for the OSS.

    Others will say different.

    That said, swapping MBs should not be an issue and you can resell without much loss in value.
     

    budman93

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 1, 2013
    5,267
    Frederick County
    Buy once, cry once. No sense in buying two brakes and paying twice to have someone install them properly. Worst case is I never get the suppressor and spend a little more on a brake than I needed to.

    I understand wanting to buy once and cry once but if you dont have a plan for what you will attach to it in the future it is hard to claim that. The can you decide you want might be incompatible. You can get a 5/8x24 birdcage for 10 bucks. Then when you actually know what you are getting you can make sure you only buy once and cry once.
     
    Last edited:

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    On a AR10, I would go with an OSS suppressor myself. ARs tend to put a bit of gas back in your face.

    That said, I like silencerco Omega a lot, I just sold mine for the OSS.

    Others will say different.

    That said, swapping MBs should not be an issue and you can resell without much loss in value.
    Honestly for a large frame AR, OSS is a solid option. Tuning the operating system with a traditional baffle stack suppressor can be really annoying.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    So there's a third piece I will need? A mount/adapter?

    I'm sorry, I never paid any attention to this stuff in the past, because I never thought I'd be considering this. It is all new to me.

    For reference, this is the brake I got, but for 30 cal

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1016895290?pid=262276

    ASR muzzle device is torqued on the barrel, ASR mount is installed into the back of the suppressor, kinda like an air tool using a QD fitting and connector instead of threading the hose directly to the tool.. The mount and muzzle device need to match, but they can be swapped between cans with the same body threads across a few brands. If you aren't using a can, doesn't matter what muzzle device you use, ends up just being a fancy brake/flash hider. You can buy a SiCo can with ASR included, and use it right away, or buy a 1.375x24 compatible can (Nomad, Resonator, Bushwacker etc.) and an ASR mount to install into it. Or just swap to a different mounting system when you get a can. Not a huge deal provided it isn't pinned/welded. the cost of mounts/adapters for modular cans can add up fast, but it's really convenient if you have multiple hosts.



    As for tuning an AR10 for a can, an adjustable gas block is a requirement, a 5.5oz or heavier buffer with a rifle length or A5 length buffer tube helps. Heavier buffers generally allow it to run well over a wider range of port pressures/conditions. Usually helps to adjust gas even without a can as 7.62 and 308 port pressures vary wildly, and it eliminates a ton of problems and softens recoil substantially. With an OSS you might not need a change from the unsuppressed setting, or maybe 1 click more, baffled cans might need 2 or 3 clicks with an SLR or SA block. Most of the time the lowest reliable setting without a can will run with a can too, just might be a little overgassed, most of my stuff is adjusted that way, and I rarely have to re-adjust. Running a can without adjustable gas is usually wildly overgassed, recoil is brutal, you get a lot more gas in the face, and will probably get frequent jamming. I've played around with OSS, and a buddy has one, but you end up with pretty weak suppression for the size, and tuning the gas with a baffled can will almost always give better performance, especially since it cuts the port pop noise substantially. They are cool, and low-backpressure designs do have a place, but it's not a great first can IMO, and All in all it's a fairly easy platform to suppress, and tends to sound pretty good.
     
    Last edited:

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    As for tuning an AR10 for a can, an adjustable gas block is a requirement, a 5.5oz or heavier buffer with a rifle length or A5 length buffer tube helps. Heavier buffers generally allow it to run well over a wider range of port pressures/conditions. Usually helps to adjust gas even without a can as 7.62 and 308 port pressures vary wildly, and it eliminates a ton of problems and softens recoil substantially. With an OSS you might not need a change from the unsuppressed setting, or maybe 1 click more, baffled cans might need 2 or 3 clicks with an SLR or SA block. Most of the time the lowest reliable setting without a can will run with a can too, just might be a little overgassed, most of my stuff is adjusted that way, and I rarely have to re-adjust. Running a can without adjustable gas is usually wildly overgassed, recoil is brutal, you get a lot more gas in the face, and will probably get frequent jamming. I've played around with OSS, and a buddy has one, but you end up with pretty weak suppression for the size, and tuning the gas with a baffled can will almost always give better performance, especially since it cuts the port pop noise substantially. They are cool, and low-backpressure designs do have a place, but it's not a great first can IMO, and All in all it's a fairly easy platform to suppress, and tends to sound pretty good.
    I don’t agree that it is necessarily easy to suppress. That depends on a lot of variables. In my experience, it varies wildly between manufacturers of rifles and/or manufacturers from home builds. It is not as challenging as some firearms, but it can be frustrating for folks without a good amount of troubleshooting experience. Additionally, difficulty can vary wildly based on differences in barrel length, different gas port sizes (even with an adjustable gas block), and the absolutely ridiculous range of ammunition available for a large frame AR (assuming the rifle is chambered in .308, most likely other calibers will be a little easier to deal with since there isn’t such a broad range of ammo available). My large frame AR in .308 was a pain to get dialed in. Even with an adjustable block and the buffer/spring combo recommended by Chad (and a SOTAR reliability package), my rifle still needed some additional tweaking to be reliable suppressed. But it’s a 16” setup. I’ve helped friends get up and running with 18-22” setups that varied in difficulty between super easy and extremely frustrating relative to an AR15. Ironically, the .308 that has been the easiest to get running suppressed was my buddy’s 12.5” rig.

    I actually don’t really agree that it sounds pretty good, either. That is a lot of mass moving around the action, and the ejection port is pretty large. Based on the new B&K pulse metering data that’s been flowing out the past couple years, it is unlikely that a large frame AR will really be hearing safe suppressed, so an OSS can is a decent option if one isn’t inclined to tinker with a rifle. My tuned setup sounds better with a Rugged Micro in S configuration than when I tried mounting my buddy’s OSS can on it, but it took a good amount of work to get it there. Someone with a 22” setup might find that not to be the case.

    Point being, it really depends. And since OP seems off put by the idea of having to change out a muzzle device, I’m not sure he’s going to be thrilled if things go sideways and a gunsmith or armorer needs to get involved.
     

    gtodave

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 14, 2007
    14,156
    Mt Airy
    Great info All, thanks!



    As for tuning an AR10 for a can, an adjustable gas block is a requirement, a 5.5oz or heavier buffer with a rifle length or A5 length buffer tube helps. Heavier buffers generally allow it to run well over a wider range of port pressures/conditions. Usually helps to adjust gas even without a can as 7.62 and 308 port pressures vary wildly, and it eliminates a ton of problems and softens recoil substantially. With an OSS you might not need a change from the unsuppressed setting, or maybe 1 click more, baffled cans might need 2 or 3 clicks with an SLR or SA block. Most of the time the lowest reliable setting without a can will run with a can too, just might be a little overgassed, most of my stuff is adjusted that way, and I rarely have to re-adjust. Running a can without adjustable gas is usually wildly overgassed, recoil is brutal, you get a lot more gas in the face, and will probably get frequent jamming. I've played around with OSS, and a buddy has one, but you end up with pretty weak suppression for the size, and tuning the gas with a baffled can will almost always give better performance, especially since it cuts the port pop noise substantially. They are cool, and low-backpressure designs do have a place, but it's not a great first can IMO, and All in all it's a fairly easy platform to suppress, and tends to sound pretty good.

    That video was very helpful, thank you. With regards to the bolded part (and to address IMBLITZVT's comment): That's why I got the brake in the first place. This gun is BRUTAL. It has worse recoil than my bolt .308 gun, even though it is about a pound heavier. I've been reluctant to mess with it though, because I've had to send the gun back to Armalite twice to get it to cycle properly.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    .... it is unlikely that a large frame AR will really be hearing safe suppressed, so an OSS can is a decent option if one isn’t inclined to tinker with a rifle. ...

    I knew I would win you over eventually! :D

    Na, I agree and that was my thinking. Its already so loud in 308, the tinny amount of sound extra you give up with an OSS is far outweighed by the advantages of the OSS. Having to screw around with adjustable gas blocks for that little bit of extra sound suppression is just really not worth it IMO. Frankly to me, unless its a bolt gun, the OSS's advantages are pretty much always out weighing the little bit of sound suppression you give up.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Great info All, thanks!


    That video was very helpful, thank you. With regards to the bolded part (and to address IMBLITZVT's comment): That's why I got the brake in the first place. This gun is BRUTAL. It has worse recoil than my bolt .308 gun, even though it is about a pound heavier. I've been reluctant to mess with it though, because I've had to send the gun back to Armalite twice to get it to cycle properly.

    Adjustable gas. There is a lot of reciprocating mass, so if it's overgassed that roughly 1.5lbs slams your shoulder pretty hard, but when tuned with a decent brake they can be very soft shooting, FAR more mild than my bolt guns. My 9yo shoots mine without much trouble, and I can get pretty quick splits with a relatively mild brake on my 3gun heavy rifle. Gas issues probably account for MOST Ar10/AR308 problems. If they are undergassed, they jam, if they are overgassed they jam, there is so much gas volume and such a huge variety of powders used, they can be a real PITA even BEFORE you add a suppressor to the mix. Increasing buffer weights can help make a rifle run well over a wide range of conditions, many AR10s have buffers far too light.
     

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