Kolbe v O'Malley being Appealed to CA4

esqappellate · Mar 26, 2015

tc617 said:
Could the court rule that ANY AND ALL magazine capacity limits are unconstitutional? Why would one magazine capacity limit be anymore constitutional than another?

If the FSA'13 magazine 10 round limit is struck down, how can another arbitrary number of rounds could stand? Would it require another law suit the strike down the previous 20 round limit?

No, the court is limited to ruling on the law before them. Period. That said, the scope of the court's reasoning in making its ruling will be the key to how far the ruling will go in implicating other types of bans.

Malachi.2.15 · Mar 26, 2015

Duplicate question...deleted.

dblas · Mar 26, 2015

esqappellate said:
And the case for en banc would get even better under the Rules of Appellate Procedure, if the panel opinion expressly disagrees with the DC Circuit in Heller II, which, you will recall, upheld the DC ASW ban. So, did Heller II come up during the argument?

Heller II did not come up from either side.

tc617 · Mar 26, 2015

esqappellate said:
No, the court is limited to ruling on the law before them. Period.

Is there is a chance that the ruling could set us up for a slam dunk case against the 20 round limit?

dblas · Mar 26, 2015

Malachi.2.15 said:
I have to ask...

I certainly understand that if the "assault weapons" ban is struck down, we revert back to the old way of doing business. I do wonder about the magazine capacity piece though. If they rule that any restrictions on capacity are unconstitutional, doesn't that wipe out the old 20 round limit by extension as well? Make sense? Any chance we could come out of this with no limits...?

See the post above yours for the best answer.

Short answer is no.

esqappellate · Mar 26, 2015

Malachi.2.15 said:
I have to ask...

I certainly understand that if the "assault weapons" ban is struck down, we revert back to the old way of doing business. I do wonder about the magazine capacity piece though. If they rule that any restrictions on capacity are unconstitutional, doesn't that wipe out the old 20 round limit by extension as well? Make sense? Any chance we could come out of this with no limits...?

Not as a matter of law. And as a matter of fact, the 10 rd limit is much more restrictive than the old 20 rd limit and that affects the analysis under the 2A. That said, if the court were to come out and say that the 10 rd restriction is unconstitutional because *any* restriction would be a violation, then that could serve as the basis of a new suit challenging the 20 round restriction. But, they strike down only the statute in front of them, so it would take a new suit, unless of course, the GA were to repeal the 20 rd restriction.

tc617 · Mar 26, 2015

esqappellate said:
Not as a matter of law. And as a matter of fact, the 10 rd limit is much more restrictive than the old 20 rd limit and that affects the analysis under the 2A. That said, if the court were to come out and say that the 10 rd restriction is unconstitutional because *any* restriction would be a violation, then that could serve as the basis of a new suit challenging the 20 round restriction. But, they strike down only the statute in front of them, so it would take a new suit, unless of course, the GA were to repeal the 20 rd restriction.

Thanks for the response to my question as well.

esqappellate · Mar 26, 2015

dblas said:
Heller II did not come up from either side.

That's very interesting. Sweeny's approach pays off.

danb · Mar 26, 2015

If they strike down the AWB and the magazine capacity restrictions, the law reverts to pre 2013, thats true, but they open the door to challenging the whole regulated firearms scheme. How much of a door opener it is will depend on the scope of course. Here is me hoping they really over played their hand this time.

esqappellate · Mar 26, 2015

danb said:
If they strike down the AWB and the magazine capacity restrictions, the law reverts to pre 2013, thats true, but they open the door to challenging the whole regulated firearms scheme. How much of a door opener it is will depend on the scope of course. Here is me hoping they really over played their hand this time.

I would be overjoyed with a win of any kind.... But, then, I suffer from BGOS.

danb · Mar 26, 2015

BGOS? Im afraid to google it.

Big Gun Overuse Syndrome?

pcfixer · Mar 26, 2015

All good discussion and answered. Lets pray we get relief from the AWB2013.

teratos · Mar 26, 2015

dblas said:
If we prevail, the AWB and magazine capacity law are gone and those two provisions of FSA 2013 go back to what they were pre Oct 2013. Regulated, 77R, 7 day wait, no copycat listing.

20 round magazines.

esqappellate said:
No, the court is limited to ruling on the law before them. Period. That said, the scope of the court's reasoning in making its ruling will be the key to how far the ruling will go in implicating other types of bans.

If they rule that a magazine capacity limit is not Constitutional, how can they revert back to the previous limit and call it Constitutional? Is 10 more Unconstitutional than 20?

lx1x · Mar 26, 2015

teratos said:
If they rule that a magazine capacity limit is not Constitutional, how can they revert back to the previous limit and call it Constitutional? Is 10 more Unconstitutional than 20?

You know back then.. They only allow 10 musket balls and bp packets for the muskets. Lol

rem87062597 · Mar 26, 2015

danb said:
BGOS? Im afraid to google it.

Big Gun Overuse Syndrome?

Battered Gun Owners Syndrome

esqappellate · Mar 26, 2015

rem87062597 said:
Battered Gun Owners Syndrome

That's the one.

esqappellate · Mar 26, 2015

teratos said:
If they rule that a magazine capacity limit is not Constitutional, how can they revert back to the previous limit and call it Constitutional? Is 10 more Unconstitutional than 20?

Well, yes, it could be, if the test they adopt turns in part on how restrictive the limit is. For example, 10 rds is much more restrictive, especially with respect to handguns, than 20 is. I can't think of many standard mags for semiauto handguns of more than 20. Almost all (except the 1911s and other .45s etc), come in at between 10 and 20.

GTOGUNNER · Mar 26, 2015

rockstarr said:
so ill be applying for AARP before this is over...

Put your money somewhere else. AARP is anti gun.

tc617 · Mar 26, 2015

teratos said:
If they rule that a magazine capacity limit is not Constitutional, how can they revert back to the previous limit and call it Constitutional? Is 10 more Unconstitutional than 20?

That's exactly the questions I was wondering... Both magazine limit restrictions are arbitrary numbers made up by gun grabbing politicians based on fear with no factual basis.

If 10 rounds is struck down there should be an immediate law suit filed to have 20 round, or ALL limits removed.

Inigoes · Mar 26, 2015

esqappellate said:
Well, yes, it could be, if the test they adopt turns in part on how restrictive the limit is. For example, 10 rds is much more restrictive, especially with respect to handguns, than 20 is. I can't think of many standard mags for semiauto handguns of more than 20. Almost all (except the 1911s and other .45s etc), come in at between 10 and 20.

The standard magazine capacity for an AR15 is 30 rounds. Doesn't have to be handguns.

Kolbe v O'Malley being Appealed to CA4

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