Because 'places of public accomodation' includes a short list of entities like restaurants, cinemas and sports arenas. Unless there is a state law against it, some businesses are still free to be assholes to their paying customers.
Jan Morgan bans Muslims from her range
- Thread starter EL1227
- Start date
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Because 'places of public accomodation' includes a short list of entities like restaurants, cinemas and sports arenas. Unless there is a state law against it, some businesses are still free to be assholes to their paying customers.
And this is why the country is in the shape it's in...sue happy. If someone doesn't want/allow me access to something that they own, I'm not going to go cry like a little b!$c£ to some lawyer and file a law suit. If that is the owner's decision, so be it. I will politely smile, thank them for their time, and take my a$$ and money where I am welcome. I will be sure to tell others of my encounter and that is it. Why in the h€[[ do people want to spend time and money where they are not welcome? There are things and reasons in which lawsuits are needed and required (gross medical malpractice, constitutional rights etc), but things like spilling hot coffee on one's self or being denied access to someone else's range is asinine. If that is the case, then I want access to your home, vehicle, bank account, guns, and whatever else I want. What do you mean no? Oh it's because I'm white with Irish and Italian ancestry? I don't care how you feel or what you believe I have a right to it anyway because I feel that you are discriminating against me. Let me call my lawyer...I'll be moved in after I sue you and win. See how ridiculous that sounds? People need to get off the "sue train" and the "everybody deserves a trophy mentality.
- Nov 14, 2010
- 20,274
That is certainly part of it, and it's been exacerbated by DoJ lawyers directed and controlled by those who wish to use the courts as a way to facilitate social change. Just ask J. Christian Adams, or better still, read his book.
5.56blaster
Ultimate Member
Amen!
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,270
rem87062597
Annapolis, MD
- Jul 13, 2012
- 641
I wish this range was closer so I could purposefully not go to it.
Alright, so what is she going to do about other religious extremists and terrorists? Plenty of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist terrorists to go around.
And I don't think the surname test will work quite as well here
Common denominators 9/11, Fort Hood, Boston Marathon, ISIS, Spain, London. Want me to keep going. Did four combat tours after 9/11 and the only people that tried to kill me were Muslims with guns. Shes gets no argument from me. Lebanon. Somalia, Libya, Kenya, Afghanistan, Egypt, Paris and on and on and on...........
I have nothing but respect for your service. But lets not pretend there aren't certain Christian groups who wouldn't have danced on your grave if you had been less fortunate in your deployments. All people who think like this are problems, but not all people of that particular religion think like this.
- Nov 14, 2010
- 20,274
Divergence ???
Are you injecting moral equivalency into the discussion. Morgan seems to think that she has a legitimate reason; that being the safety of her patrons. I would imagine if the cretins from Westboro Baptist Church showed up to 'support' her decision, she would deny them access too. Face it, there are fringes in every element of society and religion, but denying them free access to her range and lethal weapons isn't a big blow to anyone's equal access rights. Some may wish to protest her policy, but others will just take their business elsewhere, whether they be Christian, Jew, Sikh, Hindu, or Muslim.
And I shudder to think that the DoJ would step in to force her.
Alright, so what is she going to do about other religious extremists and terrorists? Plenty of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist terrorists to go around.
And I don't think the surname test will work quite as well here
I have nothing but respect for your service. But lets not pretend there aren't certain Christian groups who wouldn't have danced on your grave if you had been less fortunate in your deployments. All people who think like this are problems, but not all people of that particular religion think like this.
Are you injecting moral equivalency into the discussion. Morgan seems to think that she has a legitimate reason; that being the safety of her patrons. I would imagine if the cretins from Westboro Baptist Church showed up to 'support' her decision, she would deny them access too. Face it, there are fringes in every element of society and religion, but denying them free access to her range and lethal weapons isn't a big blow to anyone's equal access rights. Some may wish to protest her policy, but others will just take their business elsewhere, whether they be Christian, Jew, Sikh, Hindu, or Muslim.
And I shudder to think that the DoJ would step in to force her.
5.56blaster
Ultimate Member
Alright, so what is she going to do about other religious extremists and terrorists? Plenty of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist terrorists to go around.
And I don't think the surname test will work quite as well here
I have nothing but respect for your service. But lets not pretend there aren't certain Christian groups who wouldn't have danced on your grave if you had been less fortunate in your deployments. All people who think like this are problems, but not all people of that particular religion think like this.
Yes the Christian groups may hold up signs and dance on my grave but I've yet to see them cut off someones head with a knife, set someone on fire in a cage, blow themselves up, fly jets into the World Trade Center, Pentagon, a field in Pa. Shoot up an army fort, shoot girls for going to school, toss people into the ocean to drown and on and on and on……. Ive seen them in action (Really). I have the pictures and memories of what they do. You can't change my views and If we as a country don't take this serious WE are in big trouble. You have only seen the beginning my friend. If only a SMALL percent of Muslims are radical and looking for a jihad that's still a $hit load of bad guys(and girls) that will kill you and really enjoy doing it.
- Nov 14, 2010
- 20,274
More power to you ... that's called free enterprise.
It's one thing to lose your livelihood to bad business practices. Many have failed for lesser reasons than denying access. But, would you complain if the DoJ forced her to accommodate or shut her doors forever, or if someone sued and won a $135K judgment. Different situation you say, but what if the shoe were on the other foot ?
Media stunt or not, veiled discrimination or not, bigoted or cautionary business practice, Morgan should not be subjected to DoJ 'monitoring'. If people are offended, then don't patronize. THAT's the American way, not gov'mnt oversight, forced compliance or the PC police picketing outside.
My point is that its a mindset that could easily lead to that kind of behavior. When you have enough hate to celebrate the deaths of people you don't have any connection with as God's will, its not much of a reach to rationalize speeding along the process yourself. These people are cut from the same cloth as those you fought, which means there is the potential for even more sh!t loads of bag guys and girls.
We as a country are in big trouble, but its not because we don't take these issues seriously. Its because we don't want to make the effort identify the bad guys from the good ones who just look the same, or even the bad guys who look like us. Acting like this alienates people and doesn't actually offer significant protection.
Are you injecting moral equivalency into the discussion. Morgan seems to think that she has a legitimate reason; that being the safety of her patrons. I would imagine if the cretins from Westboro Baptist Church showed up to 'support' her decision, she would deny them access too. Face it, there are fringes in every element of society and religion, but denying them free access to her range and lethal weapons isn't a big blow to anyone's equal access rights. Some may wish to protest her policy, but others will just take their business elsewhere, whether they be Christian, Jew, Sikh, Hindu, or Muslim.
And I shudder to think that the DoJ would step in to force her.
You're right, it is any potential patron's prerogative to boycott, protest, or attend the range anyways. And it is likely that anyone who felt they might be discriminated against would avoid the range. But to institute such a rule on the premise of safety is no different from banning 'assault weapons' guns to make people safe. It does not address the actual problem and is ultimately nothing but a feel-good measure. But in this case, I think it also puts all of us and our sport in a bad light. And as has been said before, we should not be in the practice of turning away anyone who is interested in and supports firearms. How sad would it be if a young person looking to learn more about shooting was turned away just because they did not pass the surname and pork test?
- Nov 14, 2010
- 20,274
All valid points, especially in light of supporting 2A and the DoJ using this as an entry point to drive that wedge further between us. 2A was established to protect 1A, and it's a fine line that we walk between the two. If Morgan hadn't said anything this would have been a non-issue, but ...
What would have been the consequence if there was a shootout at her range ? We (meaning the 2A community) would all be on her side against a gov'mnt who would just as soon use it as an example to further disarm. While I am ambivalent about Morgan's reasoning and practice, I am worried that after 8 months since she instituted it, NOW the DoJ has taken an interest. The last mention in the press, BEFORE three days ago, was Sept 29, 2014. Old news, sure ... until it seems that no one cares
but persons who have something to gain from it.Infringing individual rights is probably the main reason most of us are active on this forum, but the government agency angle of this story is not what I was commenting on.
Assuming someone may be predisposed to criminal behavior based solely on their religion (or what their religion may be inferred to be based on their name) makes as much sense to me as banning AR's for sale to Maryland citizens because the criminal element could make use of them to commit crime. That was the angle of the story that grabbed my attention.
- Nov 14, 2010
- 20,274
THAT angle is so 'last year' ... Sept, 2014 to be exact
The DoJ's involvement is from this month. Despite my headline grabbing OP, Morgan's policy died in an early news cycle. I can empathize with her position, but what troubles me more is the Breitbart.com headline from my OP.
DOJ ‘Monitoring’ Arkansas Gun Range Owner Who Banned Muslims and it's accompanied WaPo write-up. Justice Department will ‘monitor’ the ‘Muslim-free’ gun range in Arkansas both dated last week.
Well THAT blows, I like it because members are of a wide variety and many know something I want to know about....
do burka's work as a lamp shade with or without entrapped occupant?
THAT angle is so 'last year' ... Sept, 2014 to be exact
The DoJ's involvement is from this month. Despite my headline grabbing OP, Morgan's policy died in an early news cycle. I can empathize with her position, but what troubles me more is the Breitbart.com headline from my OP.
DOJ ‘Monitoring’ Arkansas Gun Range Owner Who Banned Muslims and it's accompanied WaPo write-up. Justice Department will ‘monitor’ the ‘Muslim-free’ gun range in Arkansas both dated last week.
I'm still more interested in how this situation affects support for the second amendment.
It harms 2A because it reinforces the stereotype that gun owners are ignorant racist hicks and rednecks.
Maybe, maybe not..... it also shows she has a functional IFF.
Walks like a duck.... ect ect. You'll figure it out someday.Users who are viewing this thread
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