Columbia Mall - gone to the dogs

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  • Michigander08

    ridiculous and psychotic
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2017
    7,685
    Could be fun to go walk around the mall and dump a few handfuls of spent primers in random places. Wonder what their actual policy/ procedures are? figure it's private security, so worst case dog barks, Gecko45 asks if you have a firearm, you say no, he probably ignores it, worst case he asks you to leave. Pretty much it. Can't make you hand over ID or anything, worst case he can call actual police and you can show your permit to them. Wonder how accurate the dog will be?, usually alert off of GSR, and would have to be a high threshold so it doesn't alert to everyone that fired a gun within a couple days. They are usually expensive mostly to keep ongoing training for the dog and handler. More than likely it's just going to be a glorified service dog that kids are going to want to pet if they actually have on at all.

    Primer or brass? If it is primer, they won't even blink an eye. The majority of the public know nothing about primer, cartridge, or spent brass.
     

    Bullfrog

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2009
    15,165
    Carroll County
    Primer or brass? If it is primer, they won't even blink an eye. The majority of the public know nothing about primer, cartridge, or spent brass.

    Reread his post.

    It isn't for the public to see, it's for the dog trained to detect gs residue, so he's constantly alerting and frustrating the handler.
     

    Glaron

    Camp pureblood 13R
    BANNED!!!
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 20, 2013
    12,752
    Virginia
    Could be fun to go walk around the mall and dump a few handfuls of spent primers in random places. Wonder what their actual policy/ procedures are? figure it's private security, so worst case dog barks, Gecko45 asks if you have a firearm, you say no, he probably ignores it, worst case he asks you to leave. Pretty much it. Can't make you hand over ID or anything, worst case he can call actual police and you can show your permit to them. Wonder how accurate the dog will be?, usually alert off of GSR, and would have to be a high threshold so it doesn't alert to everyone that fired a gun within a couple days. They are usually expensive mostly to keep ongoing training for the dog and handler. More than likely it's just going to be a glorified service dog that kids are going to want to pet if they actually have on at all.

    Actually the US relies on German Shepard's and Belgian Malinois. Good dogs, but more intimidating. Bit scary... Actually they are great attackers too. It isnt all about drugs really, scaring people is there. There are better sniffers.

    Is this Britain's best police dog? Alfie the springer spaniel retires after sniffing out £11million of drugs, cash and guns
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tires-sniffing-11million-drugs-cash-guns.html


    https://springerspanieladvice.com/tag/sniffer-dogs/

    [However, their exceptional noses, their agility and their high work rate, in combination give them a clear advantage over all other breeds. Also, they are compact in size. Imagine for a moment a survivor, trapped in an earthquake shattered building. The last thing such a person would want to see would be the nose of, say, a big German Shepherd dog poking through the rubble. That of a springer spaniel would be much less intimidating.

    btw, Springers love people. A well trained Springer will sniff circles around a Shepard. Everyone has views. Have fun!

    :)
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,680
    If is open to the public the Constitution prevails. It is obvious laws and cardboard signs do not stop crime.

    On the other-hand I would not carry into a persons private house w/o verifying. Hell, I would not be there if I felt at risk.

    The reason people carry? All these mass incidents happen in *public* areas, meaning laws and signs dont work for the immoral. BUT wait it gets worse. The immoral are celebrated heroes in today's society.

    Guns aren't flying off the shelf in support of Big Government solutions. Hell, often they kneel with the drug dealers, murders, looters, arsonists.

    Self defense is a God given right. Government can only try to take God given rights, which is why they hate churches and freedom.

    It isn't. Nor has the court ruled that. What the court has ruled is that certain places by their nature are "the public square" as it relates to the 1st amendment. They have also ruled that laws concerning protected classes such as individuals who are disabled, color, sexual orientation, etc. are reasonable and that a business cannot discriminate against them based solely on that.

    A mall is not a "public square" such that other rights apply. They can tell you to leave because you are wearing a hat and they don't want people wearing hats. They can tell you take a hike because you are packing heat and they don't want people carrying guns in the mall.

    I am not aware of any case law that has turned out that private property owners don't have that right. To the best of my knowledge, the other way around, I am also not aware of any states that have laws banning public businesses from restricting carry has succeeding.

    At a minimum, no, you don't have such a right to carry a firearm in to a public business in Maryland that tells you that you cannot. Maryland does not have a law that criminalizes violating the business' private property rights. There is a law on the books that does criminalize trespass, but it requires the business/representative of the business to specifically tell you to leave. Not for violating any businesses code of conduct.

    I think banning rights in public places is stupid and a bad idea. But it is the right of the business to do that. At least in Maryland and most other states. Just like Twitter doesn't have to host your speech. That isn't violating your 1st amendment rights. Forcing twitter to carry your speech would be violating their rights by making them compelled to host your speech. It might suck, but either we are for everyone's rights, or we only give a crap about our own rights and F everyone else. And how you use your property, whether you are an individual or a business is a pretty core right.
     

    Michigander08

    ridiculous and psychotic
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2017
    7,685
    Shopping mall in MD has a habit of calling shopping mall a "town square". It isn't. It is a private shopping center owned by an entity.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    Reread his post.

    It isn't for the public to see, it's for the dog trained to detect gs residue, so he's constantly alerting and frustrating the handler.

    :thumbsup: Figure the false alert rate of drug dogs is around 80%, not sure what it is for GSR/bomb dogs, but probably really high, especially if they are primarily trained on explosive material. Heard stories of kids scattering dog treats and Pot scented stuff around schools back when drug searches were a thing, with spectacular results;). Either way the mall is just pushing an expensive anti-gun virtue signal, might as well have some fun F-ing with them

    Actually the US relies on German Shepard's and Belgian Malinois. Good dogs, but more intimidating. Bit scary... Actually they are great attackers too. It isnt all about drugs really, scaring people is there. There are better sniffers.

    Is this Britain's best police dog? Alfie the springer spaniel retires after sniffing out £11million of drugs, cash and guns
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...tires-sniffing-11million-drugs-cash-guns.html


    https://springerspanieladvice.com/tag/sniffer-dogs/



    btw, Springers love people. A well trained Springer will sniff circles around a Shepard. Everyone has views. Have fun!

    :)

    true, love my GSD, but compared to a hound or most hunting breeds, they can't smell crap.
     

    Bullfrog

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 8, 2009
    15,165
    Carroll County
    true, love my GSD, but compared to a hound or most hunting breeds, they can't smell crap.

    Maybe he just isn't interested?

    I walk my dogs at night. My GSD locks onto things and trails them without missing a step. I could share some funny stories, but I'm in the middle of something right now.
     

    Crazytrain

    Certified Grump
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 8, 2007
    1,641
    Sparks, MD
    Private property. Check. OK. If they don't want you carrying, I guess it is their right.

    BUT...

    It seems to me that if they disarm everyone coming in, they are then accepting responsibility for everyone's safety.

    This is the paradox, of course. You don't need a gun, because that is the roll of the police. Except the police have no responsibility to protect you, even if they happen to be around when you need them most. It seems to me to be the highest level of unfairness to require you to remove your best tool for self protection, while at the same time providing no guarantees that they will take over that burden. Unfair. Unjust. Unreasonable. And just plain stupid. No less so when it is a private business instead of a government dictate.

    I don't have a carry permit. IF I did, I'd just carry and damn the hurt feelings of strangers who care nothing of my own safety. Hell, I have considered just exercising my natural, God given, constitutional rights even without a permission slip. I'm only stopped because I am more concerned about what our tyrannical overlords can do to me, than I am about those that dwell in the shadows. I do re-evaluate that periodically. I am not happy at being forced to make such a decision. In fact, it makes me damned angry.
     

    winch

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 14, 2011
    1,326
    Towson
    "I don't have a carry permit. IF I did, I'd just carry and damn the hurt feelings of strangers who care nothing of my own safety. Hell, I have considered just exercising my natural, God given, constitutional rights even without a permission slip. I'm only stopped because I am more concerned about what our tyrannical overlords can do to me, than I am about those that dwell in the shadows. I do re-evaluate that periodically. I am not happy at being forced to make such a decision. In fact, it makes me damned angry."

    THIS X 1000....
     

    whistlersmother

    Peace through strength
    Jan 29, 2013
    8,948
    Fulton, MD
    Went last night at 8p to get a Cinnabon- the first time in ? years...

    Looked like a ghost town. Got home to find out closes at 7p.

    Bought Monkey Bread at Harris Teeter instead.

    I guess it'll be ? years before I go over there again.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,680
    Private property. Check. OK. If they don't want you carrying, I guess it is their right.

    BUT...

    It seems to me that if they disarm everyone coming in, they are then accepting responsibility for everyone's safety.

    This is the paradox, of course. You don't need a gun, because that is the roll of the police. Except the police have no responsibility to protect you, even if they happen to be around when you need them most. It seems to me to be the highest level of unfairness to require you to remove your best tool for self protection, while at the same time providing no guarantees that they will take over that burden. Unfair. Unjust. Unreasonable. And just plain stupid. No less so when it is a private business instead of a government dictate.

    I don't have a carry permit. IF I did, I'd just carry and damn the hurt feelings of strangers who care nothing of my own safety. Hell, I have considered just exercising my natural, God given, constitutional rights even without a permission slip. I'm only stopped because I am more concerned about what our tyrannical overlords can do to me, than I am about those that dwell in the shadows. I do re-evaluate that periodically. I am not happy at being forced to make such a decision. In fact, it makes me damned angry.

    You might well be able to make an argument that if they are prohibiting legal wear and carry permit holders from carrying and one were injured or killed and the mall property owners haven't taken reasonable steps to prevent other people from being armed, that then makes them legally liable.

    Example, a few unarmed security guards isn't credible protection in the event of an armed assailant if they are telling legal carries to disarm. Now if they've got metal detectors and a few armed security guards at the entrance and wanding people down and inspecting bags, that to me seems like they've done a creditable job in protecting people if they also want to insist that W&C permit holders also do not carry on to their property/in the building.

    That to me is the standard personally. Court houses, museums, etc. where they are doing bag searches and walking through metal detectors with at least a few armed guards manning it (and possible some armed or un-armed roving patrols in the building) posting no firearms signs/enforcing that seems entirely reasonable.

    Would I think I should still be armed, yeah sure, but hey, they ARE making good faith efforts to protect everyone.
     

    llkoolkeg

    Hairy Flaccid Member
    I grew up with Springfield Mall as my #1 mall hangout in the 80's, Landmark Mall as my #2 and Potomac Mills as my #3. Used to hit up Time Out 1 and 2 Arcades for fun, Taco Laredo or Pizza Delite for sicilian pies and Mexican Munchies, and Herman's or Sports Authority for my Sporting Goods. Bought my Dunlop racquets at Springfield Mall, my Timberlands at Landmark and my Glock 20 gen2 at Potomac Mills. Wouldn't set a foot in any of them these days, though, as I recall roving bands of hoodlums harassing girls and old people had invaded them by even 20 years ago.
     

    Occam

    Not Even ONE Indictment
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 24, 2018
    20,239
    Montgomery County
    Stopped in at "Westfield Montgomery" yesterday (it will always be "Montgomery Mall" to me) to use the odd new "Amazon Four Star" store to return a mis-shipment I wasn't in the mood to package up and ship back. They'll take the product as-is, out of a box, scan the QR code off your phone from the return confirmation email sent my Amazon, and it's done. Yes, the store has stuff for sale ... but it's more of a customer service point of presence. A services-provided sorta thing, as an auxiliary to the ubiquitous residential Amazon delivery.

    This is where malls are going: services. That mall (Montgomery) is now FULL of massage, hair, nail, and "lash!" salons - all services - and of course continues to sell food from food-court-grade to marginal sit-down quality. The Apple and Microsoft stores seem to continue to work, much like the Amazon store and for a lot of the same reasons. The more traditional mall fare is definitely fading away. While we were there, Mrs Occam stopped into Nordstrom and grabbed some sort of cosmetic potion over the counter ... and realized it was the first time she'd done that in close to two years. Used to be a regular thing, but now she just has stuff shipped, and the suppliers load up her shipment with all sorts of extras to keep her coming back. The OTC cosmetic sales operations have a big uphill battle there, but still win the "gotta have something on my way to the dinner out" convenience sales, for now.

    That mall (in a prosperous, low-crime area) is clearly in change-or-die mode. The COVID thing has just put the nail in the coffin of the newly built state of the art Arclight movie complex there, which cost millions and millions to build out. Arclight says there's no recovering from the losses. I'll miss that place - they had a full bar in the lobby, and you could take your drinks into the theaters. This economy has been seriously whipsawed. Guess it's time to finally buy that 80" screen and stream the newer movies we want to watch. The studios seem to be figuring that out, too.
     

    Mr H

    Banana'd
    Go shoot your gun, rub the muzzle on your pants, maybe run a patch through it and do the same and then go looking for the dog. If he alerts and they 1, through you out, 2, have you searched or 3, have you arrested, thank God because you have hit lawsuit lottery. :lol:

    LOL...

    The Missus went into her school on a Monday several years ago, and the building supervisor commented, "You went to the range yesterday."

    She was baffled how he knew. She had her purse with her, and he (being a former Marine) could smell the GSR on it.

    ;)
     

    MossPumper

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 10, 2020
    370
    VA (Western)
    I was in the mall Sunday with my wife and son , carrying a hunk of iron in the .45 caliber variety . Don't ask don't tell , i don't give two "F's" what they say or what they write down .


    I go to the malls because my son loves to walk around the malls and we pick up lunch or dinner . I do it for my son .

    Yup yup.:party29:
     

    ralph.mclean

    GOC (Grumpy Old Cop)
    Jan 27, 2018
    236
    Edgewater, MD
    https://posts.gle/HkBHx

    Saw this recently and sent an email to the mall asking if people with permits are allowed to carry while at the mall. Here is the reply I got.

    Thank you for contacting us ahead of time in regards to your question!

    Regardless of what state the permit is from, NO weapons are allowed at the Columbia Mall premises.

    We sincerely appreciate you being a responsible gun owner and that you checked with us before your trip the our mall!

    Have a wonderful day!

    I then replied that I, as a responsible gun owner, am not the one the mall needs to be concerned about.

    Never liked that place anyway.

    Guess that I have broken their rules. MANY times actually.....
     

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