FFL transfer fee gripe

Hibs · Oct 15, 2021

Can I just gripe for a minute? I just moved here from the free state of Texas, where the norm for an FFL transfer fee was $20. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but usually $20 was easy enough to find most anywhere you went.

I recently transferred a pistol into a LGS and forked over $60 to the LGS, then $10 to MSP...I can't believe the prices here. I've called around a few places, and it seems that $50 (plus $10) seems to be the norm. What gives?!?

OK, gripe over.

p.s.
If you know somewhere giving cheaper transfers in AAC then what I paid please let me know!

camo556 · Oct 15, 2021

also house prices are ridiculous and ppl think $1000 is a poverty pony AR.

maryland is expensive is what gives.

Melnic · Oct 15, 2021

Marylandistand gun owners are under assault.
The ones with cheaper transfer fees are all gone. Some that were running slim margins like one such place down SoMD people are still trying to get their $ back.

Go farther out of town and you may be able to save $10 or so. It would be NICE if somehow the fees are published and people knew what they were though and if they had MIL/LEO/MDShooter member discounts

Hibs · Oct 15, 2021

Melnic said:
Marylandistand gun owners are under assault.
The ones with cheaper transfer fees are all gone. Some that were running slim margins like one such place down SoMD people are still trying to get their $ back.

Go farther out of town and you may be able to save $10 or so. It would be NICE if somehow the fees are published and people knew what they were though and if they had MIL/LEO/MDShooter member discounts

I don't understand what you mean by margins. What is a LGS having to pay in order to do an FFL transfer? Obviously daily operating costs (and I get it, cost of living/operating higher in MD). But it takes 10 minutes to help me fill out a 4473. It takes what, 10 minutes to catalog the gun when LGS receives it? So $60 for 20 minutes of work? Seems like easy money to me.

Sundazes · Oct 15, 2021

Hibs said:
I don't understand what you mean by margins. What is a LGS having to pay in order to do an FFL transfer? Obviously daily operating costs (and I get it, cost of living/operating higher in MD). But it takes 10 minutes to help me fill out a 4473. It takes what, 10 minutes to catalog the gun when LGS receives it? So $60 for 20 minutes of work? Seems like easy money to me.

Not trying to be a dick, but get your own 01FFL and see what it takes in this state to stay afloat.
It costs what it costs in the PRK of Marylandstand. Texas is free America. MD is not.
Did you get an HQL so you can buy the firearm? That will cost you a class, a fee, prints, etc.
On the lighter side, you are not in NY or NJ.

slsc98 · Oct 15, 2021

OP, nothing to add ‘cept I hope you’re back in TX - or, at least out of Maryland-Stan - sooner than later!

Bertfish · Oct 15, 2021

Tyler's in Halethorpe is about th3 cheapest around

Sundazes · Oct 15, 2021

Bertfish said:
Tyler's in Halethorpe is about th3 cheapest around

Yea, they are good peoples....Including Chuck. Well, if he had his meds that is.

TheBert · Oct 15, 2021

Hibs said:
I don't understand what you mean by margins. What is a LGS having to pay in order to do an FFL transfer? Obviously daily operating costs (and I get it, cost of living/operating higher in MD). But it takes 10 minutes to help me fill out a 4473. It takes what, 10 minutes to catalog the gun when LGS receives it? So $60 for 20 minutes of work? Seems like easy money to me.

They have rent, they have insurance, they have a light bill, they have a heat/ac bill. The have employees with everything that goes with it. They have a lawyer on retainer. They have to pay taxes. They have to pay an CPA. The expenses are numerous. Don't forget space in the safe!

Your estimate of 20 minutes worth of work might be correct, however, your belief that it can be done for $10 or $20 dollars is in error.

chriskat · Oct 15, 2021

Even on the Eastern Shore I pay, I think it's been a while since my last handgun tansfer, $40 to the dealer plus the $10 to the MSP. That dealer is also Linux installer/distributer. So likely as cheap as you'll get.

Johnconlee · Oct 15, 2021

Hibs said:
I don't understand what you mean by margins. What is a LGS having to pay in order to do an FFL transfer? Obviously daily operating costs (and I get it, cost of living/operating higher in MD). But it takes 10 minutes to help me fill out a 4473. It takes what, 10 minutes to catalog the gun when LGS receives it? So $60 for 20 minutes of work? Seems like easy money to me.

To me $60 for a transaction with MSP and being responsible for someone’s firearm seems low. How many people with out an HQL buy a handgun online, have it shipped to an ffl? Now the ffl is teaching handgun laws and storing a gun for weeks/months. What if the shipping company loses the gun? Not saying I want to pay more but I imagine 5-6 calls and 2-3 in store visits per transfer plus all the other what if’s. I’m not sure $60 is enough.

Biggfoot44 · Oct 15, 2021

Tl,DR - Maryland sucks , you were better off back in Texas .

This comes up periodically , and every couple of years becomes a mega thread .

The hassles , exposure , and upfront costs of the state level Regulated Weapons Dealer License dwarfs the mere FFL . The occasional Disapproved on a 77R will eat a lot of time and attention on a Transfer . Or storing something for 6-9 months pending Roster Board action .

Md is very business unfriendly , and even mainstream vanilla small business take it rough .

They very well spent months if not years fighting anti gun local jurisdictions for Permits , and Zoning Exceptions before opening .

All the cool toys have minimum waiting periods , plus customers fitting at least two in person visits into their busy schedules . So for handling a meaningful volume of transfers , buying buncha extra safes , if not renting additional secure storage area has to be factored .

Plus rent, mortgage , utilities , usual overheads , are expensive here .

$35 is screaming bargin , think of that as subsidized for promotional purposes .

$ 50- ish is going rate for non exploitative , friendly Dealers .

Dealers who really Don't want to do transfers ( for various reasons ) , will quote $100 to $125 , and occasionally get it .

Hibs · Oct 15, 2021

Johnconlee said:
To me $60 for a transaction with MSP and being responsible for someone’s firearm seems low. How many people with out an HQL buy a handgun online, have it shipped to an ffl? Now the ffl is teaching handgun laws and storing a gun for weeks/months. What if the shipping company loses the gun? Not saying I want to pay more but I imagine 5-6 calls and 2-3 in store visits per transfer plus all the other what if’s. I’m not sure $60 is enough.

It's $10 to MSP, which that part takes 2 minutes. Then it's $60 to fill out a 4473, a federal form, which is the same everyone else in the US of A.

I get it, over head, etc etc. but you're telling me ALL that is worth charging 300% more than other states on a simple FFL transfer? Seems excessive.

And it's not just LGS, it's the same if you go to even Bass Pro. Surely they are making more then enough as a franchise and on other store sales, why charge so dang much.

Sigh. Just my gripe for the day. I understand it is what it is. And I typically try to buy from LGS inventory. But it's annoying when they don't have what I want in stock and tell me they can't order it. But I go online and can find it. OR the LGS wants an exorbitant amount more than what equal firearm is selling for at some online retailers. That's the only reason I'm in this conundrum in the first place.

I will caveat all this by saying, the LGS I went to has a very friendly and helpful stuff. So besides the price, I can't complain about anything else.

Hibs · Oct 15, 2021

TheBert said:
Your estimate of 20 minutes worth of work might be correct, however, your belief that it can be done for $10 or $20 dollars is in error.

So you're saying that dealers in other states who do it for $20, are losing money?

Sundazes · Oct 15, 2021

Hibs said:
So you're saying that dealers in other states who do it for $20, are losing money?

Other states don't have to deal with the MSP changing the rules in the fly, doing the 77R on top of the fed 4473, keeping the firearm for 7 additional days, waiting for a blessing from the MSP to release the handgun. It goes on. No one is arguing with you, we all agree it sucks.

Do you have a HQL?

ToolAA · Oct 15, 2021

Hibs said:
So you're saying that dealers in other states who do it for $20, are losing money?

I don’t think that is what he is saying. I think it’s very possible to operate as an FFL in a less restrictive state at a lower cost. Here in MD the demand is high, the supply of firearms dealers is low. Labor is higher. The number if knuckleheads a store owner may have to deal with is also probably higher. In my opinion low cost transfers are sort of a lost leader. A business owner might choose to do it to earn future business. However with the explosive growth of online sales, the possibility of future sales is diminished for the shop owner. Also if you are a store owner your sales time at the counter is probably your most limiting resource. People are so impatient these days. I suspect dealers have realized that they can potentially loose a real sale if their staff is tied up facilitating a transfer. This is why they need to charge that extra $20-$30 to make business sense.

Hibs · Oct 15, 2021

sundazes said:
Do you have a HQL?

Exempt.

Hibs · Oct 15, 2021

ToolAA said:
I don’t think that is what he is saying. I think it’s very possible to operate as an FFL in a less restrictive state at a lower cost. Here in MD the demand is high, the supply of firearms dealers is low. Labor is higher. The number if knuckleheads a store owner may have to deal with is also probably higher. In my opinion low cost transfers are sort of a lost leader. A business owner might choose to do it to earn future business. However with the explosive growth of online sales, the possibility of future sales is diminished for the shop owner. Also if you are a store owner your sales time at the counter is probably your most limiting resource. People are so impatient these days. I suspect dealers have realized that they can potentially loose a real sale if their staff is tied up facilitating a transfer. This is why they need to charge that extra $20-$30 to make business sense.

Ya, understood. Heck, I've seen places that just solely do FFL transfers because they know they can't compete with some big online retailers so they don't even try to bother. I personally would rather do that than deal with the knuckleheads as you mentioned.

-Z/28- · Oct 15, 2021

For a handgun they are not only doing a 4473, but also a MD 77R. That's a second form that comes with more liabilities and record keeping. Now they also have to store and be liable for that firearm for 7 or more days while you wait for approval. On top of that they have to navigate the many grey areas of the MSP handgun roster.

To give an example, every time a manufacturer introduces a new sub-model of an existing handgun, dealers are playing roulette whether or not the MSP will want it listed separately on the roster and if it's blanket covered by the broader model being listed. For instance Sig just came out with the Legion P320. So should that be good to go under the approved "P320 9mm" on the roster OR since it has a different sku the stock P320 that was approved by the board does it need to be added separately? The answer to that seems to vary from gun to gun with MSP.

TheBert · Oct 15, 2021

Hibs said:
So you're saying that dealers in other states who do it for $20, are losing money?

You do realize that Maryland is one of the high cost states. State taxes are high as hell. When my taxes are done for Maryland there is a line for the state tax then you have to look up the county you live in for the multiplier and then multiply your state tax by the multiplier and that is what you owe on your state return in addition to your state tax. God help you if you live in a city, you get to pay that tax on top of your state tax and county tax. When you transfer real-estate there is a state transfer tax and a county transfer tax. living and doing business in Maryland is expensive. Retiring in Maryland is expensive. My wife and I are looking at Delaware and Virginia on the DelMarVa peninsula as a possible alternatives to retiring to our beach house in Ocean City.

I have made a crapload of money living in Maryland, one of the benefits of being employed in the DC Metro area, and I have paid a crapload of taxes in Maryland. Believe it or not I don't care, I earn more than my boss up in Mass. When I moved to Maryland from Virginia back in 1990 my weekly pay wen down $50 per week ($50 x 52 = $2600). My car insurance doubled, thank you Baltimore.

FFL transfer fee gripe

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