.45 Super

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  • starmetal

    Member
    Apr 5, 2017
    97
    So nobody here loads or shoots .45 Super I take it..??

    I already have 3 guns in 10mm and I love the cartridge but don't need anymore 10mm guns, .45 GAP offers no advantage over .45 ACP, except the smaller frame which I don't care about, The .45 ACP is superior ballistically to the GAP, and the GAP requires it's own dies where the .45 Super uses standard .45 ACP dies, so that's one less die set I have to buy. The .45 ACP cartridge dates back to 1905 and I'm aware that it's performance can be improved somewhat by loading it with modern +P ammo, and while I know +P .45 can be fired safely in many pistols, I really have no interest in pushing the .45 ACP to pressure and performance levels it really wasn't designed for. The .45 Super was designed from the outset as a high performance "modernised" .45 ACP, the external dimensions of the two cases are the same, but the .45 Super brass is much thicker in the web, which allows it to safely handle the higher pressures when fired in standard .45 ACP barrels that have full chamber support.

    So were back the .45 super, it's ballistically superior to even the hottest +P .45, way superior to .45 GAP, and equal to the 10mm for the most part. Converting a G21 to fire .45 Super is relatively simple, a quality aftermarket .45 ACP barrel with full chamber support, a #24 lb to #26 lb recoil spring, and a heavy duty firing pin spring. A ported barrel is strongly recommended as well from what I've been reading. Starline offers high quality .45 Super brass so there's no problem there, and it uses standard .451 diameter 185, 200, and 230 gr. .45 cal. bullets.

    The real problem is load data, which is rather spotty from the limited searching I've been doing. Neither my Lyman 50th or Speer #14 manuals lists any loads for the Super, and neither does Alliant. I've always been a bit cautious and hesitant when using load data gleaned off the internet from places like handloads.com, so if anyone knows where I might find some reliable .45 Super load data I would greatly appreciate a heads up.

    Load Data:
    http://www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm

    http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=45 Super&Weight=All&type=Handgun
    ONLY FOR USE IN PROPERLY CONVERTED FIREARMS...DO NOT TAKE THESE LOADS LIGHTLY, THEY CAN BE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS IF USED IMPROPERLY...NO FRIGGIN ROOM FOR ERROR...NONE

    Alliant Power Pistol is the best (and safest) powder for the 45 Super

    230 grain bullets...

    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" HS-7 10.5gr 924fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" Alliant Power Pistol 8.0gr 933fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" AA-7 11.0gr 942fps
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose R-P(UMC) 45ACP Winchester LP 1.240" 800X 8.1gr 952fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" Viht N350 7.8gr 963fps
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose R-P(UMC) 45ACP Winchester LP 1.240" 800X 8.6gr 974fps
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.240" Blue Dot 10.2gr 1000fps
    230gr. Raineer Winchester 45ACP Federal 150 Blue Dot 10.4gr 1004fps
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose R-P(UMC) 45ACP Winchester LP 1.240" 800X 9.1gr 1015fps
    230 grain ball 1.252" Alliant Power Pistol 8.4gr 1031fps
    230gr. Raineer Winchester 45ACP Federal 150 Blue Dot 11.0gr 1035fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" Viht N350 8.8gr 1040fps 553 FP
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.240" Blue Dot 10.6gr 1042fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.20" AA-7 11.5gr 1050fps
    230gr Viht N330 7.1gr 1050fps
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.220" AA-7 13.0gr 1088fps
    230gr WSF 8.0gr 1100fps
    230gr 800X 9.6gr 1100fps+
    230gr Blue Dot 11.0gr 1100fps+
    230gr AA-7 13.5gr 1100fps+
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" Alliant Power Pistol 9.4gr 1104fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" AA-7 13.5gr 1108fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.220" HS-7 12.3gr 1110fps 630 FP
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.240" Blue Dot 11.0gr 1111fps
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose R-P(UMC) 45ACP Winchester LP 1.240" 800X 9.6gr 1112fps
    230gr. RNL Meister Federal 150 Alliant Power Pistol 8.6gr 1128fps
    230gr. RNL Meister Federal 150 Alliant Power Pistol 9.0gr 1138fps
    230gr , West Coast Plated Round Nose Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.220" AA-7 13.5gr 1168fps
    230gr Hornady XTP Federal 150 1.20" AA-7 12.5gr 1180fps
    230 gr LRN (Lyman452374) 1.275" N105 12.3gr 1200fps
    230gr. RNL Meister Federal 150 Alliant Power Pistol 9.6gr 1201fps
    230 gr LRN (Lyman452374) 1.275" N105 12.4gr 1231fps

    240's and 250's...

    240gr Unique 7.2gr 1050fps
    240gr Univ.Clays 7.0gr 1100fps

    250gr LSWC Federal 150 Unique 7.0gr 900fps
    250gr LSWC Federal 150 Herco 7.0gr 929fps
    250gr LSWC Federal 150 Herco 8.0gr 1000fps
    250gr LSWC Federal 150 2400 13.0gr 1017fps
    250gr cast rnfp 1.198" Alliant Power Pistol 8.4gr 1097fps

    255's...

    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" 3N37 6.5gr 739fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" 800X 7.6gr 876fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Longshot 7.2gr 895fps
    255gr West Coast PFP R-P(UMC) 45ACP Federal 150 1.24" Unique 6.5gr 909fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Blue Dot 8.8gr 929fps
    255gr West Coast PFP R-P(UMC) 45ACP Federal 150 1.24" Unique 7.0gr 944fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" 3N37 8.0gr 945fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-9 13.2gr 965fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.0gr 975fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" 800X 8.6gr 980fps(?)
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-9 13.0gr 983fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-9 13.4gr 985fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Longshot 8.2gr 985fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Blue Dot 9.6gr 990fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" 3N37 8.5gr 997fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Alliant Power Pistol 8.3gr 1000fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 12.4gr 1104fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-9 13.6gr 1008fps
    255gr West Coast PFP R-P(UMC) 45ACP Federal 150 1.24" Unique 7.5gr 1015fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.4gr 1023fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.6gr 1025fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.8gr 1039fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" 800X 9.1gr 1045fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Longshot 8.7gr 1045fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 12.0gr 1065fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 12.2gr 1079fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Blue Dot 10.4gr 1082fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" 800X 9.6gr 1108fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.24" Longshot 9.2gr 1108fps
    255gr West Coast PFP Federal 150 1.20" Alliant Power Pistol 8.5gr 1130fps

    275's...

    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" 800X 6.6gr 765fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" VVN105 11.5gr 848fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" 800X 7.6gr 874fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.235" Unique 6.0gr 905fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" HS-6 9.2gr 936fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" AA-9 12.5gr 945fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 10.5gr 945fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.0gr 949fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.235" Unique 6.5gr 967fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" HS-7 10.4gr 969fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" 800X 8.6gr 980fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.4gr 986fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" Alliant Power Pistol 8.1gr 992fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.0gr 1000fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.235" Unique 7.0gr 1003fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" 800X 8.8gr 1010fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" Longshot 8.2gr 1013fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" Blue Dot 9.7gr 1019fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.5gr 1033fps
    275gr Hunter's Supply cast FP Starline 45 Super Federal 150 1.24" AA-7 11.3gr 1044fps


    Hope these help.
     

    redeemed.man

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 29, 2013
    17,444
    HoCo
    I think the advice you were talking about had to do with premature extractor wear if I'm not mistaken...?? Changing out a .40 extractor for a 9mm extractor and plunger (which I routinely do on all my .40 to 9mm Glock conversions) takes about 1 minute tops. I've been running a setup like that in a G22 with a lone wolf 9mm conversion barrel, and I've fired several thousand rounds (probably like 3k) and can see no appreciable wear on the extractor over and above what would be considered normal. No abnormal wear on the slide either, which makes sense since the external dimensions of the LW barrel are identical to the factory tube, it's only the bore and chamber that differ. Even if you should wear out a .40 extractor running a 9mm conversion, it's a $20 part, so I really don't see this as a big deal. Run the extractor and plunger assembly for the conversion caliber you're going to shoot and you'll be fine.
    Agreed but it's not a pressing need for me to shoot 9 mm from it since I have numerous Glock 17's, 19's, & 26's. I only got the Lone Wolf barrel for the purposes of demonstrating its versatility. With no changes to the extractor or any other parts (except for the 9 mm mag) it has fired several hundred rounds of 9 mm flawlessly. The quality of the lone wolf barrel is impressive.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    Something to consider is just to set up for .460 rowland, complete with threaded barrel and comp. The comp will tame recoil and help with timing(pulling the barrel/slide forward until pressure drops a bit). With a .460 Rowland setup, you can fire .460, 45 super, and 45acp.
    Not a ton of recoil with the comp


    For a brake/comp, LWD makes a pretty solid one. I was hugely surprised how effective it is on my m&p45.
     

    Shoobedoo

    US Army Veteran
    Jun 1, 2013
    10,968
    Keyser WV
    Load Data:
    http://www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm
    ..
    Alliant Power Pistol is the best (and safest) powder for the 45 Super...

    Thanks, the link above is probably the most useful for my purposes, I don't plan on ever shooting cast bullets or anything over 230 grs.

    Power Pistol is an excellent powder for both .40 S&W and 10mm and I have plenty on hand, so we'll see how it does with .45 Super.:thumbsup:
     

    starmetal

    Member
    Apr 5, 2017
    97
    Thanks, the link above is probably the most useful for my purposes, I don't plan on ever shooting cast bullets or anything over 230 grs.

    Power Pistol is an excellent powder for both .40 S&W and 10mm and I have plenty on hand, so we'll see how it does with .45 Super.:thumbsup:


    You're very welcome!! :)
     

    Seabee

    Old Timer
    Oct 9, 2011
    517
    Left marylandistan to NC
    Hi Shoo, I've been shooting it and developing loads in my Glock 21 for over a year now. You will need a fully supported chamber in your barrel and a heavier recoil spring. My spring is 24#. I ordered my 45 Super brass from Starline. It has a thicker web and will handle the pressures not to mention it is headstamped as 45 Super. The 460 Rowland mentioned earlier dont have much on the Super. Its a great round. Email Western powders for load data. They sent me some good data, complete with pressures.

    Ken
     

    starmetal

    Member
    Apr 5, 2017
    97
    Hi Shoo, I've been shooting it and developing loads in my Glock 21 for over a year now. You will need a fully supported chamber in your barrel and a heavier recoil spring. My spring is 24#. I ordered my 45 Super brass from Starline. It has a thicker web and will handle the pressures not to mention it is headstamped as 45 Super. The 460 Rowland mentioned earlier dont have much on the Super. Its a great round. Email Western powders for load data. They sent me some good data, complete with pressures.

    Ken

    The 45 Super is a good round, but I beg to differ with you that the 460 Rowland not having much on it. Read this and this is only one among mang:

    http://gulfcoastgunforum.com/showthread.php?1613-45-Super-amp-460-Rowland-Chrony-results!
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    I load and shoot 45ACP, super and Rowland, Super really doesn't give up much to 10mm other than less capacity. A USP45 with 18# recoil spring, G30SF with barrel, guide rod set and 21# springs, and the Rowland is a Clark custom kit in a Kimber 1911. It's fairly simple, true 45 super brass will hold up well, lots of people shoot it like +p in pistols with nothing more than a heavier recoil spring, including the GLOCK pistols, won't hurt the gun, but the brass gets beat up, more by the oversized chamber than any lack of "support" from feed ramp intrusion, which hasn't been a problem for more than a decade. Power pistol is an excellent and forgiving powder, but running high pressure with big heavy bullets is inherently risky, and if there is setback, poor metering, or any other load outside of specs, it can get bad in a hurry. PP is my goto for hotter loads, in 45, keep in mind 45 super has less case volume than ACP, so small increases in powder over ACP data will have a higher pressure than you would think.
    For a 230gr XTP loaded to at least 1.225 in 45ACP 7.2gr@875FPS is max,
    45+p is 7.6gr@945fps,
    45 super is 8.5gr@1070fps
    460Rowland is 12.5@1332fps

    obviously work up your loads, I've had pressure signs with the max Rowland load, which damages the expensive brass, so I only load to 12gr, still over 1250fps, so no slouch, but it is MUCH easier on brass. 8gr in 45 super brass clocks 1050 from my little G30, and is quite accurate, hotter than that and it beats up brass and begins to lose a bit of accuracy.
     

    Silverlode

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 16, 2010
    4,797
    Frederick
    I'll be purchasing a new G21 for this, I already have Gen 4 G21 but I don't want to mess with it for this project.



    Believe me, I know exactly what you mean. I looked long and hard at the GAP, mainly because Glock doesn't offer 10mm or .45 ACP in the compact frame, and I'm not interested in .357 SIG. The Gap just doesn't fill a niche anywhere that I can see, but to each his own I guess...:shrug:

    So nobody here loads or shoots .45 Super I take it..??

    I already have 3 guns in 10mm and I love the cartridge but don't need anymore 10mm guns, .45 GAP offers no advantage over .45 ACP, except the smaller frame which I don't care about, The .45 ACP is superior ballistically to the GAP, and the GAP requires it's own dies where the .45 Super uses standard .45 ACP dies, so that's one less die set I have to buy. The .45 ACP cartridge dates back to 1905 and I'm aware that it's performance can be improved somewhat by loading it with modern +P ammo, and while I know +P .45 can be fired safely in many pistols, I really have no interest in pushing the .45 ACP to pressure and performance levels it really wasn't designed for. The .45 Super was designed from the outset as a high performance "modernised" .45 ACP, the external dimensions of the two cases are the same, but the .45 Super brass is much thicker in the web, which allows it to safely handle the higher pressures when fired in standard .45 ACP barrels that have full chamber support.

    So were back the .45 super, it's ballistically superior to even the hottest +P .45, way superior to .45 GAP, and equal to the 10mm for the most part. Converting a G21 to fire .45 Super is relatively simple, a quality aftermarket .45 ACP barrel with full chamber support, a #24 lb to #26 lb recoil spring, and a heavy duty firing pin spring. A ported barrel is strongly recommended as well from what I've been reading. Starline offers high quality .45 Super brass so there's no problem there, and it uses standard .451 diameter 185, 200, and 230 gr. .45 cal. bullets.

    The real problem is load data, which is rather spotty from the limited searching I've been doing. Neither my Lyman 50th or Speer #14 manuals lists any loads for the Super, and neither does Alliant. I've always been a bit cautious and hesitant when using load data gleaned off the internet from places like handloads.com, so if anyone knows where I might find some reliable .45 Super load data I would greatly appreciate a heads up.

    I too have long wondered why the Super didn't get more love. I have had one for nearly 20 years, a 1911. The only Super ammo I have put through it were factory loads from some now defunct company in Texas, I don't recall the name off hand. I intended to handload for and bought Starline brass. Then the fun came trying to get bonafide, credible load data, especially so long ago. Had a phone conversation with a gentlemen as Speer and he told me, at the time, that was the one round they were forbidden from distributing data for due to some lawsuits at the time. I know this isn't much help, but at least all these years later there is a lot of data online and I think if you compare to standard 45 acp loads using the same components, you can pretty much figure out what you are going to get.

    Handloads aside, I think Underwood and Buffalo Bore load the stuff.
     

    smokey

    2A TEACHER
    Jan 31, 2008
    31,412
    I load and shoot 45ACP, super and Rowland, Super really doesn't give up much to 10mm other than less capacity. A USP45 with 18# recoil spring, G30SF with barrel, guide rod set and 21# springs, and the Rowland is a Clark custom kit in a Kimber 1911. It's fairly simple, true 45 super brass will hold up well, lots of people shoot it like +p in pistols with nothing more than a heavier recoil spring, including the GLOCK pistols, won't hurt the gun, but the brass gets beat up, more by the oversized chamber than any lack of "support" from feed ramp intrusion, which hasn't been a problem for more than a decade. Power pistol is an excellent and forgiving powder, but running high pressure with big heavy bullets is inherently risky, and if there is setback, poor metering, or any other load outside of specs, it can get bad in a hurry. PP is my goto for hotter loads, in 45, keep in mind 45 super has less case volume than ACP, so small increases in powder over ACP data will have a higher pressure than you would think.
    For a 230gr XTP loaded to at least 1.225 in 45ACP 7.2gr@875FPS is max,
    45+p is 7.6gr@945fps,
    45 super is 8.5gr@1070fps
    460Rowland is 12.5@1332fps

    obviously work up your loads, I've had pressure signs with the max Rowland load, which damages the expensive brass, so I only load to 12gr, still over 1250fps, so no slouch, but it is MUCH easier on brass. 8gr in 45 super brass clocks 1050 from my little G30, and is quite accurate, hotter than that and it beats up brass and begins to lose a bit of accuracy.

    https://www.460rowland.com/product-category/conversions/

    Here's a place for rowland conversions. The m&p45 kit reallllllllllllly has me looking at the spare change bucket.
     

    Seabee

    Old Timer
    Oct 9, 2011
    517
    Left marylandistan to NC
    So nobody here loads or shoots .45 Super I take it..??

    I already have 3 guns in 10mm and I love the cartridge but don't need anymore 10mm guns, .45 GAP offers no advantage over .45 ACP, except the smaller frame which I don't care about, The .45 ACP is superior ballistically to the GAP, and the GAP requires it's own dies where the .45 Super uses standard .45 ACP dies, so that's one less die set I have to buy. The .45 ACP cartridge dates back to 1905 and I'm aware that it's performance can be improved somewhat by loading it with modern +P ammo, and while I know +P .45 can be fired safely in many pistols, I really have no interest in pushing the .45 ACP to pressure and performance levels it really wasn't designed for. The .45 Super was designed from the outset as a high performance "modernised" .45 ACP, the external dimensions of the two cases are the same, but the .45 Super brass is much thicker in the web, which allows it to safely handle the higher pressures when fired in standard .45 ACP barrels that have full chamber support.

    So were back the .45 super, it's ballistically superior to even the hottest +P .45, way superior to .45 GAP, and equal to the 10mm for the most part. Converting a G21 to fire .45 Super is relatively simple, a quality aftermarket .45 ACP barrel with full chamber support, a #24 lb to #26 lb recoil spring, and a heavy duty firing pin spring. A ported barrel is strongly recommended as well from what I've been reading. Starline offers high quality .45 Super brass so there's no problem there, and it uses standard .451 diameter 185, 200, and 230 gr. .45 cal. bullets.

    The real problem is load data, which is rather spotty from the limited searching I've been doing. Neither my Lyman 50th or Speer #14 manuals lists any loads for the Super, and neither does Alliant. I've always been a bit cautious and hesitant when using load data gleaned off the internet from places like handloads.com, so if anyone knows where I might find some reliable .45 Super load data I would greatly appreciate a heads up.

    I load for it in my Glock 21 and did extensive testing with it. My conversion consisted of installing a 24# recoil spring and I already had a lone wolf fully supported barrel in it and Starline 45 Super brass. I would recommend a ported barrel if using full power loads. I download mine a bit for better accuracy. I see this is an older post but it was on top. I also have data from Western Powders if you're interested. I also used Quickload data.
     

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