Name this wall hanger

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  • jtb81100

    Ultimate Member
    May 28, 2012
    2,234
    Western HoCo
    My grandfather has had this hanging over a fireplace my whole life. His parents bought it for him at an antique type store about 65-70 years ago for next to nothing after weeks of begging. We have absolutely no clue what it is or what it would have fired.

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    Also, its gotten into rough shape. What can be done to keep it from getting any worse? Assuming we don't go the way of England and Australia, I'd like it to still be around in another 50+ years.
     

    MilsurpDan

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 1, 2012
    2,217
    Frederick County
    I'm not up to snuff on my pre 1890 breech loading rifles but it looks similar to an Austrian Werndl rifle that was cut down and turned into a shotgun. The firing pin also looks like it is missing. As for maintaining it, I would suggest putting some Kroil on it. Don't use anything abrasive on the metal or stock.
     

    -Z/28-

    I wanna go fast
    Dec 6, 2011
    10,649
    Harford Co
    My google-fu leads me to believe it is a Snider-Enfield type action. That's an educated guess from staring at pictures.
     

    Rack&Roll

    R.I.P
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 23, 2013
    22,304
    Bunkerville, MD
    I believe that is a muzzle loader that was re-engineered in the 1800s to fire the newly invented "cartridge". I believe the slanted hole is where a firing pin mechanism was seated.
     

    MilsurpDan

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 1, 2012
    2,217
    Frederick County
    After a little more research I found this Thread from another forum. The breech loading shotgun pictured looks pretty similar to yours, apparently they originated in Germany and some were originally French Muskets that were converted to breech loading shotguns to sell on the surplus market

    http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=447143

    Could be Belgian also...they made a lot of goofy guns in the later half of the 19th Century into the early 20th Century
     

    Chaunsey

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 28, 2009
    3,692
    brandywine MD
    its a french tabatiere rifle, a breach loading cartridge rifle converted from muzzle loaders.

    most of these seem to have been sold as surplus and then converted to 12ga.

    they were commonly sold here as "zulu shotguns".

    thats my guess as to what yours likely is.


    honestly, if the insides are at least as good as the outsides, you could honestly even shoot that thing if you find the missing parts, clean it all up and ensure its properly functioning. of course you'd need to confirm its caliber, and make some light BP loads.

    but other than that, you mainly just need to clean up the rust and keep the metal partslightly oiled to prevent future rusting.

    even easier as its just a wall hanger, get a silicone impregnated rag and just wipe it down every few months or so and it should be pretty well preserved.

    for the stock, get a bottle of howards feed n wax and give it a coat now and then to keep it looking good and preventing it from deteriorating any more.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,691
    It's probably 75 years too late, but keep wax, oil, any sort of preservative out of any cracks in the wood. That stuff will make it very difficult to glue up and repair any cracked wood.
     

    joppaj

    Sheepdog
    Staff member
    Moderator
    Apr 11, 2008
    46,459
    MD
    He didn't ask us to "identify " this wall hanger, he asked us to name it. I'm calling it Klaus.
     

    jtb81100

    Ultimate Member
    May 28, 2012
    2,234
    Western HoCo
    Going to look for some books this weekend at the gun show. I've tried googling the name in picture 7 MODOC figuring it was the maker, but only find a West coast Indian tribe that had guns similar to these. With that and the Belgian proof mark, I'm wondering if somebody was selling them as "old injun guns" back in the day.

    Asked him about the firing pin, and he said his dad took it out when they got it so "I couldn't figure out a way to shoot it and hurt myself." Never imagining trying to shoot it if it is even mechanically sound to do so, but would be nice to have it whole so I'll have to keep an eye out.

    The condition: trust me, I cringed when I saw how bad it had gotten. Thanks for all the preservation tips, when I get it cleaned up I'll take some more pics.

    Funny story, he thought it was still a ML until I explained the conversion. The straps in pic 1 are the different powder horns/measures he got over the years.

    Joppa: touche, sir, touche :D
     

    12a10

    Active Member
    Apr 6, 2009
    351
    AA County Crownsville
    its a french tabatiere rifle, a breach loading cartridge rifle converted from muzzle loaders.

    most of these seem to have been sold as surplus and then converted to 12ga.

    they were commonly sold here as "zulu shotguns".

    thats my guess as to what yours likely is.


    honestly, if the insides are at least as good as the outsides, you could honestly even shoot that thing if you find the missing parts, clean it all up and ensure its properly functioning. of course you'd need to confirm its caliber, and make some light BP loads.

    but other than that, you mainly just need to clean up the rust and keep the metal partslightly oiled to prevent future rusting.

    even easier as its just a wall hanger, get a silicone impregnated rag and just wipe it down every few months or so and it should be pretty well preserved.

    for the stock, get a bottle of howards feed n wax and give it a coat now and then to keep it looking good and preventing it from deteriorating any more.

    This desscription is spot on. Most of these were converted in Belgium for sale in African colonies, thus the Belgian proofs. Have seen many of these over the years and many had what looks like a half inch dowel rod imbedded in buttstock. This was allegedly a piece of wood that "was blessed by the Pope" to give French soldier a measure of confidence.
     

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