HQL denied to to Medical Marijuana Card?

glueru · Aug 18, 2020

No matter what the argument is, having a MM is admitting to taking a schedule One drug in federal eyes and FFL's are issued by the feds.
Another issue having a MM is not being able to pass sensitive background checks. I work on certain bank equipment and have to pass high level checks
and random tests, so a MM and any smoking is out of the question, and who needs that crap anyways, get off the couch and enjoy life. have a beer instead, just don't be a drunk.

LongRanger300 · Aug 19, 2020

Pinecone said:
There are two different points.

1) The law is, you have an MM card, you cannot have a firearm. Right or wrong, that is the law.

2) Should MM or mj in general be legal or at least not disqualify one from owning a firearm. That is a contentious arguement. I tend to be on the side of legalizing or at least allowing ownership of a firearm, with penalties for use under the influence. As pointed out, there are a lot of legal things that mess you up more than mj.

This^^^

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bountied · Aug 19, 2020

My buddy purposefully got his HQL, bought a handgun, and then got his MM card so that he could have a handgun before he was disqualified. Just sayin. Give up the card get your gun and then get the card again or some crap. People, think things through please.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 19, 2020

Bob A said:
There's the rub. The stuff is detectable in urine for a week or more after ingestion, but defining "under the influence" with any sort of actual quantifiable data is not possible, far as I know. Certainly, having detectable amounts a week later is hardly under the influence.

Stuff's no more harmful than alcohol, but it's been tarred with a racist brush from the days of Harry Anslinger, who needed to find an evil demon when the end of Prohibition put his job at risk.

What is your opinion of Anslinger?

welder516 said:
Are we comparing coffee & weed ???

To me that seems a bit silly .

I was kidding, but I love taking something too far.

outrider58 said:
Bro, you don't need that crap. It's as much a crutch as any narcotic/amphetamine.

I eat right, sleep...maybe 3-4 hours a night, and still make it through every day without the need of a stimulant. I do drink my morning cup of black tea.
Not trying to tell you how to live. I'm only saying, everyone I know who lives on that stuff uses it as a shortcut to avoid good nutritional habits.

Well, I think only sleeping 3 or 4 hours of a night is FAR worse then me pumping 123 MG's of Caffeine in my body every morning.

I am more then willing to tell you exactly how I live and eat, and I think you will change tune on deterring me from this one thing I choose that is bad for me.

Every morning I eat half a bagel with cream cheese and a small breakfast burrito with a glass of skim milk. On my ride into work I drink my 0 sugar energy drink For lunch I have a premade grocery store salad, and 6 nights out of a week my wife makes an 8oz protein source for both of us (fish, pork, chicken, steak, beef) and usually something like 8-14oz of vegetables (broccoli, peas, beans) My ideal bedtime for my 4 am alarm is 8-9 (as long as the tiny baby doesn't keep me up) I don't drink alcohol ever, and I don't smoke anything ever.

I am 34 years young, 6'1'' 190lbs, I feel pretty great, and never catch grief from my doctors

do you think this one zero sugar energy drink is going to ruin my life?

Bountied said:
Just check no on the box. I don't think the agencies cross reference each other. The MSP can only see your criminal record.

this is a crime

Bountied said:
My buddy purposefully got his HQL, bought a handgun, and then got his MM card so that he could have a handgun before he was disqualified. Just sayin. Give up the card get your gun and then get the card again or some crap. People, think things through please.

this is also a crime.

Bountied · Aug 19, 2020

So if you own guns then get a MM card you have to forfeit your firearms?

Mark75H · Aug 19, 2020

Bountied said:
So if you own guns then get a MM card you have to forfeit your firearms?

Now you are getting it.

MaxVO2 · Aug 19, 2020

Bountied said:
So if you own guns then get a MM card you have to forfeit your firearms?

*****I really hope it never comes to this. I'm an NRA instructor and teach a variety of different classes but also take a lot of classes as well to get a feel for other teaching styles and to keep my own skills honed, etc...

The MM card and forfeiture question actually came up in a class I took regarding PPIH (Personal Protection in the home). One of the instructors was an attorney who does 2A work and was not there to specifically discuss MM but did mention it as an eventual way to have a reason to go and confiscate firearms from someone if there were other reasons for doing so. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens - that being said - marijuana still being illegal on the federal level could serve as a pretext for going after the low hanging fruit of people who have purchased firearms prior to getting an MM card. I'm not aware of this being done, but the potential is there at least from a "legal" standpoint to technically go after those firearm owners.

There would be *enormous* pushback from this for sure but from a legal standpoint, at least from how I understood it, the law could be interpreted by a gun averse local government (MD State Assembly.....) as a legal way to deny someone their right to keep and bear arms while the MM card is active (I think they mentioned 1 year after turning it in..), and more importantly send out a social worker or two with perhaps other people (hopefully bachelors!) to collect the firearms from the MM users and keep them in a safe place where no doubt they would never see the light of day again... The MM people are low hanging fruit - high hanging fruit are the inner cities with the gangbangers, MS-13 and other gangs, drug dealers, Antifa and BLM, etc... Those folks would probably require more social workers at the minimum to get those guns..

I don't see this happening, but I also didn't see the police coming to folks that owned Bushmaster AR's back during the DC Sniper days asking questions regarding the purchase of firearms they weren't supposed to be keeping lists of.... A woman was killed in Aspen Hill sitting at a bus stop, and someone I know had a visit from the police regarding their legally purchased firearm as it matched the weapon that was killing people in the DC area. Law Enforcement put a LOT of resources into finding John M and Lee Boyd Malvo. Thankfully, they found those guys but it showed gun owners that purchased firearms legally that it was very possible to be tracked down and put on a list.

If we let it happen, I can see eventual confiscation, but see MM people with guns perhaps having their stuff taken first due to laws they (the MM people) signed off on or should have known about with even a cursory search on legal issues regarding firearm ownership and using MM.

outrider58 · Aug 19, 2020

MaxVO2 said:
*****I really hope it never comes to this. I'm an NRA instructor and teach a variety of different classes but also take a lot of classes as well to get a feel for other teaching styles and to keep my own skills honed, etc...

The MM card and forfeiture question actually came up in a class I took regarding PPIH (Personal Protection in the home). One of the instructors was an attorney who does 2A work and was not there to specifically discuss MM but did mention it as an eventual way to have a reason to go and confiscate firearms from someone if there were other reasons for doing so. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens - that being said - marijuana still being illegal on the federal level could serve as a pretext for going after the low hanging fruit of people who have purchased firearms prior to getting an MM card. I'm not aware of this being done, but the potential is there at least from a "legal" standpoint to technically go after those firearm owners.

There would be *enormous* pushback from this for sure but from a legal standpoint, at least from how I understood it, the law could be interpreted by a gun averse local government (MD State Assembly.....) as a legal way to deny someone their right to keep and bear arms while the MM card is active (I think they mentioned 1 year after turning it in..), and more importantly send out a social worker or two with perhaps other people (hopefully bachelors!) to collect the firearms from the MM users and keep them in a safe place where no doubt they would never see the light of day again... The MM people are low hanging fruit - high hanging fruit are the inner cities with the gangbangers, MS-13 and other gangs, drug dealers, Antifa and BLM, etc... Those folks would probably require more social workers at the minimum to get those guns..

I don't see this happening, but I also didn't see the police coming to folks that owned Bushmaster AR's back during the DC Sniper days asking questions regarding the purchase of firearms they weren't supposed to be keeping lists of.... A woman was killed in Aspen Hill sitting at a bus stop, and someone I know had a visit from the police regarding their legally purchased firearm as it matched the weapon that was killing people in the DC area. Law Enforcement put a LOT of resources into finding John M and Lee Boyd Malvo. Thankfully, they found those guys but it showed gun owners that purchased firearms legally that it was very possible to be tracked down and put on a list.

If we let it happen, I can see eventual confiscation, but see MM people with guns perhaps having their stuff taken first due to laws they (the MM people) signed off on or should have known about with even a cursory search on legal issues regarding firearm ownership and using MM.

I too knew a guy(wife's former boss) who was visited by MoCo PoPo for this.

I actually see, at least locally to the DC vicinity, huge pushback, given the local political bent. Bowser seems to have ultimate authority over the press and has no limits to overreach.
But, again, that's locally speaking.

glueru · Aug 19, 2020

MaxVO2 said:
*****I really hope it never comes to this. I'm an NRA instructor and teach a variety of different classes but also take a lot of classes as well to get a feel for other teaching styles and to keep my own skills honed, etc...

The MM card and forfeiture question actually came up in a class I took regarding PPIH (Personal Protection in the home). One of the instructors was an attorney who does 2A work and was not there to specifically discuss MM but did mention it as an eventual way to have a reason to go and confiscate firearms from someone if there were other reasons for doing so. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens - that being said - marijuana still being illegal on the federal level could serve as a pretext for going after the low hanging fruit of people who have purchased firearms prior to getting an MM card. I'm not aware of this being done, but the potential is there at least from a "legal" standpoint to technically go after those firearm owners.

There would be *enormous* pushback from this for sure but from a legal standpoint, at least from how I understood it, the law could be interpreted by a gun averse local government (MD State Assembly.....) as a legal way to deny someone their right to keep and bear arms while the MM card is active (I think they mentioned 1 year after turning it in..), and more importantly send out a social worker or two with perhaps other people (hopefully bachelors!) to collect the firearms from the MM users and keep them in a safe place where no doubt they would never see the light of day again... The MM people are low hanging fruit - high hanging fruit are the inner cities with the gangbangers, MS-13 and other gangs, drug dealers, Antifa and BLM, etc... Those folks would probably require more social workers at the minimum to get those guns..

I don't see this happening, but I also didn't see the police coming to folks that owned Bushmaster AR's back during the DC Sniper days asking questions regarding the purchase of firearms they weren't supposed to be keeping lists of.... A woman was killed in Aspen Hill sitting at a bus stop, and someone I know had a visit from the police regarding their legally purchased firearm as it matched the weapon that was killing people in the DC area. Law Enforcement put a LOT of resources into finding John M and Lee Boyd Malvo. Thankfully, they found those guys but it showed gun owners that purchased firearms legally that it was very possible to be tracked down and put on a list.

If we let it happen, I can see eventual confiscation, but see MM people with guns perhaps having their stuff taken first due to laws they (the MM people) signed off on or should have known about with even a cursory search on legal issues regarding firearm ownership and using MM.

This could easily become a "red flag" qualifier

Biggfoot44 · Aug 20, 2020

It hasn't happened regarding previously owned firearms and weed cards. Yet .

MSP has crossreferenced deer harvest records and Prohibited Persons after new groups of previous ok people became Prohibited under FSA 13 , so the idea isn't a foreign concept to them .

cantstop · Aug 20, 2020

glueru said:
This could easily become a "red flag" qualifier

Biggfoot44 said:
It hasn't happened regarding previously owned firearms and weed cards. Yet .

MSP has crossreferenced deer harvest records and Prohibited Persons after new groups of previous ok people became Prohibited under FSA 13 , so the idea isn't a foreign concept to them .

I could definitely see where a person with a MMJ card and a firearm registered in MD would be an instant add-on Red Flag candidate to any citation starting at misdemeanor traffic offense, trespassing, shoplifting, etc.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 20, 2020

Bountied said:
So if you own guns then get a MM card you have to forfeit your firearms?

yes

MaxVO2 said:
*****I really hope it never comes to this. I'm an NRA instructor and teach a variety of different classes but also take a lot of classes as well to get a feel for other teaching styles and to keep my own skills honed, etc...

The MM card and forfeiture question actually came up in a class I took regarding PPIH (Personal Protection in the home). One of the instructors was an attorney who does 2A work and was not there to specifically discuss MM but did mention it as an eventual way to have a reason to go and confiscate firearms from someone if there were other reasons for doing so. The overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens - that being said - marijuana still being illegal on the federal level could serve as a pretext for going after the low hanging fruit of people who have purchased firearms prior to getting an MM card. I'm not aware of this being done, but the potential is there at least from a "legal" standpoint to technically go after those firearm owners.

There would be *enormous* pushback from this for sure but from a legal standpoint, at least from how I understood it, the law could be interpreted by a gun averse local government (MD State Assembly.....) as a legal way to deny someone their right to keep and bear arms while the MM card is active (I think they mentioned 1 year after turning it in..), and more importantly send out a social worker or two with perhaps other people (hopefully bachelors!) to collect the firearms from the MM users and keep them in a safe place where no doubt they would never see the light of day again... The MM people are low hanging fruit - high hanging fruit are the inner cities with the gangbangers, MS-13 and other gangs, drug dealers, Antifa and BLM, etc... Those folks would probably require more social workers at the minimum to get those guns..

I don't see this happening, but I also didn't see the police coming to folks that owned Bushmaster AR's back during the DC Sniper days asking questions regarding the purchase of firearms they weren't supposed to be keeping lists of.... A woman was killed in Aspen Hill sitting at a bus stop, and someone I know had a visit from the police regarding their legally purchased firearm as it matched the weapon that was killing people in the DC area. Law Enforcement put a LOT of resources into finding John M and Lee Boyd Malvo. Thankfully, they found those guys but it showed gun owners that purchased firearms legally that it was very possible to be tracked down and put on a list.

If we let it happen, I can see eventual confiscation, but see MM people with guns perhaps having their stuff taken first due to laws they (the MM people) signed off on or should have known about with even a cursory search on legal issues regarding firearm ownership and using MM.

That is kinda of scary and insane

outrider58 said:
I too knew a guy(wife's former boss) who was visited by MoCo PoPo for this.

I actually see, at least locally to the DC vicinity, huge pushback, given the local political bent. Bowser seems to have ultimate authority over the press and has no limits to overreach.
But, again, that's locally speaking.

Still more insane and scary

glueru said:
This could easily become a "red flag" qualifier

I don't think the government would even need to hold a hearing to begin action on someone who had a firearm and a MM card.

cantstop said:
I could definitely see where a person with a MMJ card and a firearm registered in MD would be an instant add-on Red Flag candidate to any citation starting at misdemeanor traffic offense, trespassing, shoplifting, etc.

Can a government initiate a red flag warrant? I assumed only individuals could, but I don't know how the law works in MD

I dislike red flag, it is unconstitutional

cantstop · Aug 20, 2020

JoeyBimmer said:
Can a government initiate a red flag warrant? I assumed only individuals could, but I don't know how the law works in MD

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_law

"In Maryland, the courts reviewed 302 petitions for a gun removal order in the first three months of the state's law; the petition was granted in 148 cases (about half the time). About 60% of petitions were filed by family or household members, one petition was filed by a healthcare worker, and the rest were filed by police.[73]"

JoeyBimmer · Aug 20, 2020

cantstop said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_law

"In Maryland, the courts reviewed 302 petitions for a gun removal order in the first three months of the state's law; the petition was granted in 148 cases (about half the time). About 60% of petitions were filed by family or household members, one petition was filed by a healthcare worker, and the rest were filed by police.[73]"

red flag laws cannot go away fast enough.

What was the famous quote about liberty and security? Mostly coming true by now.

RoadDawg · Aug 21, 2020

Is there really anyone here who did not know that the Gun Control groups did their research before pushing to legalize MM?

They knew damn well that the registration process to obtain the MM card... would then make the MM card holder into a prohibited person on the federal level. I’ve been warning folks about this for years. It’s a “back door gun ban” for anyone who participates. And the only way to get it removed as a tool for Gun Control now... is to get MM legalized on the federal level. Until that time... don’t throw away your 2A for a high time or anything that shows that you use marihuana in ANY form.

MM cards are the bait... the gun ban is the trap.

No matter what the state mj laws say... it’s the federal mj laws that they will use to take your guns... and/or to stop you from buying any.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 21, 2020

RoadDawg said:
Is there really anyone here who did not know that the Gun Control groups did their research before pushing to legalize MM?

They knew damn well that the registration process to obtain the MM card... would then make the MM card holder into a prohibited person on the federal level. I’ve been warning folks about this for years. It’s a “back door gun ban” for anyone who participates. And the only way to get it removed as a tool for Gun Control now... is to get MM legalized on the federal level. Until that time... don’t throw away your 2A for a high time or anything that shows that you use marihuana in ANY form.

MM cards are the bait... the gun ban is the trap.

No matter what the state mj laws say... it’s the federal mj laws that they will use to take your guns... and/or to stop you from buying any.

Never attribute to malice that can be attributed to incompetence.

I think it is just a happy (for the gun grabbies) by product that came about. The legislators wouldn't disqualify the person, the federal judicial system would. You would have to have a conspiracy involving state legislators conspiring with federal judiciary officials.

Bolts Rock · Aug 21, 2020

JoeyBimmer said:
Never attribute to malice that can be attributed to incompetence.

I think it is just a happy (for the gun grabbies) by product that came about. The legislators wouldn't disqualify the person, the federal judicial system would. You would have to have a conspiracy involving state legislators conspiring with federal judiciary officials.

You would be wrong. Some of those involved in getting MM passed in MD are that smart and they knew the Federal law would be the effective ban. Hell, they counted on it and later claimed to be against it by proposing a law that would exempt MM card holders from the Federal ban just so they could say "we tried don't blame us". If you think otherwise you are hilariously naive.

JoeyBimmer · Aug 21, 2020

Bolts Rock said:
You would be wrong. Some of those involved in getting MM passed in MD are that smart and they knew the Federal law would be the effective ban. Hell, they counted on it and later claimed to be against it by proposing a law that would exempt MM card holders from the Federal ban just so they could say "we tried don't blame us". If you think otherwise you are hilariously naive.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I know there are some select folk who that may have dawned on, but I would bet the overwhelming majority involved in MM cards had no idea that would be a 2a disqualifying event.

outrider58 · Aug 21, 2020

Bolts Rock said:
You would be wrong. Some of those involved in getting MM passed in MD are that smart and they knew the Federal law would be the effective ban. Hell, they counted on it and later claimed to be against it by proposing a law that would exempt MM card holders from the Federal ban just so they could say "we tried don't blame us". If you think otherwise you are hilariously naive.

+1

RoadDawg · Aug 21, 2020

JoeyBimmer said:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I know there are some select folk who that may have dawned on, but I would bet the overwhelming majority involved in MM cards had no idea that would be a 2a disqualifying event.

Except that one of the persons involved heavily in pushing the MM Card through in this state... was extremely well versed on the federal law... from the inside. I know for a fact that person knew. And lobbied like hell to get the law changed to accept the MM program.

Agree to disagree?

Okay

If you want to believe that big money anti gun folks didn’t know about the federal connection... and didn’t consider it as a means of a bait and trap for folks who would not be paying attention... then you’ve grossly underestimated our enemy.

Weed everybody... weed... legal weeed folks...

(They won’t care ‘bout no gunz when they’re high.)

HQL denied to to Medical Marijuana Card?

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