HQL denied to to Medical Marijuana Card?

christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

Exactly. They make it sound with the process of trying to get the HQL that it is ILLEGAL drug use....however they failed to tell us that even though LEGALLY we have a MM card, its still ILLEGAL in the eyes of the federal govt. The only reason we both have our card is because we wanted to follow the law not break it by using through illegal means. Neither of us prior to getting our card (which we obtained this year) have EVER used marijuana since we were about 16 years old...I'm 47 and he's 50. We are STRONG supporters of following the law but apparently trying to do one thing the right way, gets you a closed door elsewhere.

smokey · Aug 5, 2020

Get 80%s, make your own. Enjoy liberty. Alternatively, give up the MM card and get guns. I certainly wouldn't advocate that you then just get marijuana from one of the bajillion other people with a mm card, or just the old fashioned way(MM cards have apparently made street pot pretty cheap). The 2a doesn't say "...shall not be infringed unless you smoke pot from time to time". You have the rights that you exercise.

https://www.rockeybrass.com/Polymer-80-Glock-19-PF940C-80-Compact-Pistol-Frame-Kit_p_20.html

christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

pbharvey said:
A handgun seems like it would be a difficult weapon to shoot with scleroderma.

It was not difficult for me to shoot however it was difficult for me to load the magazine after about 5 and it was also difficult for me to pull back the slide on the pistol I tried. They showed us a magazine loader thing that we had planned on getting to assist with the loading. As my disease progresses it may get more difficult but I certainly at this rate could not physically defend myself with this disease.

roadking · Aug 5, 2020

christy20657 said:
Exactly. They make it sound with the process of trying to get the HQL that it is ILLEGAL drug use....however they failed to tell us that even though LEGALLY we have a MM card, its still ILLEGAL in the eyes of the federal govt. The only reason we both have our card is because we wanted to follow the law not break it by using through illegal means. Neither of us prior to getting our card (which we obtained this year) have EVER used marijuana since we were about 16 years old...I'm 47 and he's 50. We are STRONG supporters of following the law but apparently trying to do one thing the right way, gets you a closed door elsewhere.

Sorry you’re out so much coin. I’m sure you’ve heard it, but ignorance of the law (even federal law) is no excuse. It stinks, but sometimes lessons are costly. It doesn’t mean there’s someone to blame. You made a mistake (unknowingly) and it cost you. That’s humbling and it hurts.

If you do have a beef it’s with your instructor and/or their employer. But even then, there isn’t a formal curriculum for the HQL. Just a high-level set of topics that should be covered. I suppose MM use isn’t one of the required topics.

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christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

SkiPatrolDude said:
Hopefully the whole medical marijuana restriction goes away in due time. It's freakin rediculous. I don't smoke the stuff anymore but I did for about a decade and have friends that are regular users, both for medical reasons and recreationally.

I can tell you factually that marijuana use has zero relationship to responsible or irresponsible gun ownership or use. MM card holders likely fall into an even lower risk category since they only procure it by legal means.

Turning in your card is the only way as it stands. I believe the database takes about a year to clear you out of the MM card system, but check with MSP for the recommendation there. You do not want to fill out a 77r with false info - it's a federal crime.

I am hoping that the the restriction goes away as well. I can tell you I am not willing to give up my card. The lotions and ointments that are used for my condition which affects the skin first have been a tremendous help to me.

GrimReaper · Aug 5, 2020

https://www.polymer80.com/pistol-frames

Problem solved, no hql needed. Hurry up before the idiots in Annapolis go back to work because they are trying to make it illegal to build your own firearms

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

roadking · Aug 5, 2020

christy20657 said:
I am hoping that the the restriction goes away as well. I can tell you I am not willing to give up my card. The lotions and ointments that are used for my condition which affects the skin first have been a tremendous help to me.

I don’t hope it goes away. I don’t want people that may be impaired owning and operating firearms. But I hope they find a way to extract and deliver the pain-relieving chemicals from the MJ in a way that isn’t mind altering. If they can do that, this whole issue would go away for the MM users. The recreational users would still remain prohibited people. As they should.

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christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

MJD438 said:
I have, on behalf of MSRPA, alongside the other 2A organizations, testified about the "law of unintended consequences" on many occasions on this very topic. We can sit here, on this forum, and scream at the top of our lungs all day long about the inequities inherent in the system, but that will not change squat. This is an issue that crosses both State and Federal jurisprudence. Legislators have tried to pass state law changes about the MM card issue last year. It will not matter to a hill of beans until the Congress corrects the Federal limitations.

While there may be some points that could be covered by HQL instructors, specifically as it relates to regulated firearms purchases in Maryland, it ultimately falls on the individual to be cognizant of the laws at all levels.

IANAL - as others have posted, the 4473 that is completed for all firearms purchases (in addition to the MSP 77R for regulated firearms), asks about habitual usage of Marijuana. It does not state whether said usage is covered by an MM card or not, as it is still illegal at the Federal level despite what some states have done to legalize its usage as a medicine. The Federal Government still views marijuana as a Schedule I drug (https://www.dea.gov/drug-scheduling).

Until our community is willing to make a big stink at both Federal and State levels, this issue is not going to change. Quite honestly, IMO the Maryland Democrat party, and Brian Frosh in particular, LOVES the fact that the MM card is a tacit admission of voluntary removal of 2A rights for Marylanders.

I plan to make a big stink about it on both levels...I have had various things before the general assembly before in here in Maryland. However as of late, I have discovered that our Governor is a Democrat posing as a Republican and until we find out where this election goes, there is no point in trying now. They are all so concerned with finding ways to get Trump out and covering their own unless it has to do with BLM, Trump or the virus, they aren't listening to anything.

randomuser · Aug 5, 2020

roadking said:
I don’t hope it goes away. I don’t want people that may be impaired owning and operating firearms. But I hope they find a way to extract and deliver the pain-relieving chemicals from the MJ in a way that isn’t mind altering. If they can do that, this whole issue would go away for the MM users. The recreational users would still remain prohibited people. As they should.

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What will we do about the recreational drinkers?

christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

pbharvey said:
No you can't

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana

Oh yes, I'm stoned off my MM lotion....Lets see we are allowed to continue to be parents, still hold a drivers license and lets look at the death rate of those addicted to percosets, oxy, fentanyl etc etc etc. Look at the crime rate of those who are addicted to such LEGAL prescriptions. It doesn't even ask you on the application if you use any other drugs, just if you posses a medical marijuana card.

Also, I am not a "habitual" user, I use it as needed, usually when I am experiencing a flare and tylenol does not work or the plaquenil that I take does not work. So that term "habitual user" is not a correct statement to make but get this....A PERSON WITH NO CRIMINAL RECORD WHO DOES NOT POSSES A MM CARD AND PARTAKES WHETHER FOR MEDICAL OR RECREATIONAL OR ON A DAILY BASIS CAN OBTAIN A FIREARM LICENSE....IMAGINE THAT!

christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

Docster said:
Had been addressed here many months ago and many times since

Just joined a few weeks ago...uh I was not a "maryland shooter" didn't have a permit or gun....sooooooo.

christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

welder516 said:
Life is all about choices , I commit a crime the same thing happens (felony) Having no knowledge about what you are doing is a personal problem .

Lots of places to get and gain knowledge IMHO , if I want to know about a a topic I talk about it here or research it outside the MDS community .
There is not a topic you can't Duck-Duck-Go and get an answer .

Lack of planning and execution is a problem for all of us that have taken short-cuts

We researched the place where 1. We obtain the licensing 2. We went for the HQL class and 3. By searching the internet which stated "habitual unlawful use" it did not state FEDERAL LEVEL, it did not say IF YOU HAVE YOUR MM CARD ITS A NO. You think whatever you want quite frankly I don't really care. WE do and have done EVERYTHING by the book our entire lives....and we certainly wouldn't waste money during these times for shits and giggles.

OLM-Medic · Aug 5, 2020

GrimReaper said:
https://www.polymer80.com/pistol-frames

Problem solved, no hql needed. Hurry up before the idiots in Annapolis go back to work because they are trying to make it illegal to build your own firearms

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

Problem solved indeed.

roadking said:
I don’t hope it goes away. I don’t want people that may be impaired owning and operating firearms. But I hope they find a way to extract and deliver the pain-relieving chemicals from the MJ in a way that isn’t mind altering. If they can do that, this whole issue would go away for the MM users. The recreational users would still remain prohibited people. As they should.

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Antigunner detected

christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

roadking said:
It’s a tough call. There ARE some people that shouldn’t own guns. All but the most radical here would agree to that. And those under the influence of mind altering chemicals are probably some of them. If you’re in an altered state, it seems possible that you may make a bad decision. And if said bad decision involves a firearm, really bad things can happen. If one is a *regular user* (habitual?) of mind altering substances, that possibility seems much more likely than if one is not a regular user.
And we can’t say bad things will never happen, because in an altered state, people sometimes make bad decisions. That’s sort of the definition of being in a mind altered state. So the reasoning actually makes sense. I’m not discussing whether there are valid medical uses for mind altering chemicals. But even if you’re using them medically, if you’re a regular user of them (or perceived to be) bad decisions can happen and in those times owning a gun doesn’t seem to be the safe play. We can argue whether this idea conflicts with a literal reading of the 2A (it does). But we have lots of laws that bump into each other. We have courts to rule on the overlaps. But I think it’s reasonable that some people are deemed prohibited from owning and that regular users of mind altering substances are among those prohibited - regardless of why those substances are being used. And just to be clear, I don’t think it’s reasonable that every citizen of a state is arbitrarily prohibited from owning.

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I agree there are some that should not own firearms. They are exactly who I want to protect myself from.

I also believe now that I have obtained my card (just this year and did not use prior to that since the 80's), many different things. I honestly thought when I went to a dispensary it was going to be kind of a real scientifically educated doctor of alternative medicine however its basically a bunch of pot heads using it for anything but medical purposes. I also can't believe the quantity they allow you to purchase. Also it is NOT taxed. I have to perform a lot of my own research as to what works for my symptoms and I am not supposed to smoke it with my condition so that is a rare occurrence and other than possible a vape here or there. Edibles and ointments are what works for me.

I have never had a criminal record, I have adopted 3 children from druggy mothers, I obtained the card to prevent from being a statistic that ended up addicted to pain medications and so that I can continue to work with a clear mind and not lose my life, my family, my life to drug addiction.

There is something wrong with a person who is prescribed narcotic pain medication being able to obtain a HQL and a person who is prescribed MM. In my opinion it stomps all over more than just my 2nd amendment laws. I do not know what the correct answer is as there are many who partake in MM and have the license for other purposes than medical. I don't know how you determine who is who. However stereotyping every person who has their MM card as a "habitual user" or and "addict" or "user of illegal substance" is just as bad as stereotyping every Cop as racist and every black person as a criminal.

Biggfoot44 · Aug 5, 2020

I would hope that people don't handle firearms while actually stoned , just as I would hope people don't handle firearms while actually drunk . But despite some stereotypes , I doubt most people ( who occasionally partake of weed ) are stoned 24/7 any more than people ( who occasionally have a beer ) are drunk 24/7 .

But the 800lb elephant is that " Medical " or not , Weed is NOT Legal . Certain states such as Maryland have policies to not prosecute under certain circumstances , which is significantly different .

I said above , our current scheme is the worst possible combination . Want it to be illegal , make it totally illegal . Want it to be used medicinally , reschedule it and have it subject to actual prescriptions . Want to have it available for adults to use recreationally , then have it sold / regulated/ taxed substantially similar to hard liquor .

I'm not going to address in this thread which of those alternatives is optimal , but the main point is any of those is better than at present .

*******************************

I have seen FFLs routinely bring up weed cards to prospective purchasers , and they are prominently addressed on 4473 , 77R , etc . But absolutely , it would be Best Practices for the resultant Prohibited Person status to be routinely discussed by both firearms training providers , and ( weed card providers ) .

randomuser · Aug 5, 2020

christy20657 said:
There is something wrong with a person who is prescribed narcotic pain medication being able to obtain a HQL and a person who is prescribed MM.

This is the part that gets me. It doesn't follow logic. Just shows the ignorance of the current setup and we all follow.alongnwitb it because that's what the politicians say and they know best right.

I'm surprised so many are in ok with the .gov infringement. Sad really.

If you can't see it's just another way to infringe on 2a then your eyes are closed.

I don't mess.with it myself but I see no difference between this and beer.

Deemed by politicians.....
Alcohol was once legal.
Then
Alcohol was once illegal.
Now
Now alcohol is legal.

Deemed by politicians.....
Slavery was once legal.
Now slavery is illegal.

Point I'm making is to just follow your moral compass.

Just because a politician strokes a pen doesn't make something right or wrong.

Just follow your moral compass and buy a polymer 80. When they become illegal you'll be glad you have it.

Others on here have heavy barrel ar15 with standard capacity mag. They say they are law abiding. Someday those guns will be deemed by a politician as illegal. At that time, I ask this. Will you turn it in because you are breaking the law?

randomuser · Aug 5, 2020

roadking said:
I don’t hope it goes away. I don’t want people that may be impaired owning and operating firearms. But I hope they find a way to extract and deliver the pain-relieving chemicals from the MJ in a way that isn’t mind altering. If they can do that, this whole issue would go away for the MM users. The recreational users would still remain prohibited people. As they should.

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Let's also issue red flag orders to anyone who has prescription pain medication given to them by their doctor because they are equally dangerous. Then after they are off of their doctor prescribed meds for one year they can get their rights to own a firearm back after getting a lawyer and petitioning the courts.

christy20657 · Aug 5, 2020

roadking said:
I don’t hope it goes away. I don’t want people that may be impaired owning and operating firearms. But I hope they find a way to extract and deliver the pain-relieving chemicals from the MJ in a way that isn’t mind altering. If they can do that, this whole issue would go away for the MM users. The recreational users would still remain prohibited people. As they should.

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The recreational users are not prohibited. It's not even asked on the HQL application if you partake in recreational use of any drugs that I remember and if a person says no, unless they have been arrested which would disqualify them anyway, there is no proof. Prescription drug abusers are not prohibited, the drunk guy that gets offended at the party next door and goes home and comes back with his registered and legal firearm, not prohibited. The person who beats their spouse and intimidates them daily with the firearm, not prohibited. It is ONLY prohibited to those people IF they have been arrested and charged. There are plenty of legal gun owners who daily commit these offenses.

Bottom line, a person should be made aware when obtaining the MM card that they give up their 2nd or ANY amendment rights for that matter. The card is issued by the Maryland licensing division. The world changed pretty quickly, I had no need to obtain a HQL at the time I obtained my MM card. I also should not be grouped in with drug abusers simply because I choose alternative medication rather than narcotic medications. MM is NOT a narcotic. What are narcotics? Cocaine, Heroin, PCP, OXYCONTIN, PERCOSETS, DILAUDID, MORPHINE etc.

[Kev308] · Aug 5, 2020

I can`t get behind the argument that marijuana and firearms are dangerous because it's "mind altering." You know what`s more dangerous than marijuana....? WATCHING THE NEWS.

Stupid law. Unconstitutional.

Threeband · Aug 6, 2020

randomuser said:
What will we do about the recreational drinkers?

What will we do about people who didn't get enough sleep last night?

What will we do about people who take over the counter cold medicine?

HQL denied to to Medical Marijuana Card?

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