Getting Ready for Second Wave?

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  • lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    As for length, its about 90 days of blackout for us. Preparing for longer just isn't very feasible.

    But that is 90 days of "the rest of the world disappears and our life isn't THAT altered".

    I mean, I guess I'd spend less time on the internet...

    Realistically we are okay for 180+ short of some unforeseen medical emergency or something (and plenty of stuff to cover most contingencies, but its not like I can perform surgery other than perhaps the most minor operation). Got enough juice to run the generator at least 2hrs a day for at least a month. I think I am being overly pessimistic on actual fuel use in those 2hrs (I am mathing at 50% load, but even with freezer and fridges running full out to cool back down morning and evening, likely with that and some of the other loads like the well pump I don't think we'd be much over 40% average load). My math comes out to 33.3d btw. Add in the tanks in the vehicles and it gets us to about 80 days (we keep both vehicles no less than 3/4ths tank right now). That isn't including syphoning the mower. Nor counting a 2 gallon gas can I have laying around and full. That gets us to around 90 days. Realistically more in the range of 60-75d since the vehicles aren't always absolutely full and at any given time the mower and one of the 5 gallon cans is at some state of being used. But I'd also assume I'd at least have enough warning to go top everything off.

    More than likely once we'd run through the first 3 5-gallon cans, probably we'd reduce generator usage to an hour a day. Which gets us out to around 4-5 months. An hour a day is enough to at least keep the chest freezer stuff frozen and probably the stuff in the freezer of the fridges. Would have run through anything we'd want to keep refrigerated long before then. So it might be more like after the first couple of weeks.

    Even in the winter, an hour a day is enough to run the oil heat up enough to coast through even a bitterly cold day without freezing pipes and keeping it not too uncomfortable. I do need/want a wood stove at some point (I have a wood boiler, but it relies on electric pumps for circulation and runs in loop with the oil boiler for hadronically heated central air units. Installing radiators in my basement as there is currently no heat down there (it was unfinished, I am finishing it now), but it will still need minimal power to run the pumps).

    Water, well. So long as the gas for the generator lasts.

    Past gas running out, do have a fireplace, so at worse could at least keep the house minimally warm (fireplaces suck to try to heat a house). Also have a creek on the property, so can collect water easily enough and boil or filter it as needed. Have sufficient food reserves for the 5 of us for at least 90 days without rationing, hunting or growing anything. We also happen to have a garden that supplies about half the produce we eat in a year. Orchard that was just planted, that sadly isn't going to help out any for the next year or two really. Some other irons in the fire that'll help out. Planted grapes this year, but it'll be 2-4 years before we get a lot (should be enough for a bit of eating and probably a couple dozen bottles of wine as they are all dual purpose grape varieties. Can always do cuttings and propagate to expand that production). I'd imagine I could do at least a little hunting, even if neighbors knock down deer and other animal populations (I'd imagine I could supplement with at least some squirrels, crow and dove). Some fishing too. Creek holds a few smallish sunfish and smallmouth. And the river isn't far from our place that has the same (but much bigger). Do depending on the season could stretch that 90 days to probably half a year or more. Right timing fully self-sufficient as winter/spring we could easily double the plantings and still be fenced from deer. Quadruple in a pinch, but don't have enough spare fencing or already fenced area for that. Plenty of wood from the forest to keep fires running in winter.

    So all that said, we are pretty tightly nailed down for 90 days of the world ignoring us. Probably could stretch it to half a year. Maybe even make it "forever", but likely not because of the fellow human factor.

    But disruptions periodically? Yeah that isn't going to cause us any issues. Even repeated prolonged ones.

    PS Per my earlier post, partly why I want a dual fuel generator is it is a bit easier to keep more fuel on hand. 4x30# propane bottles would be sufficient to add at least 20 days at 2hrs per day of run time at expected load. And I have a pair of 20# tanks already for the grill and brewing which would add some amount of endurance. Plus having a backup generator in case the other one died would be really nice.
     

    Alan3413

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 4, 2013
    16,921
    From experience, I have enough to run the Genny 100 hours if I maxxed out my gas storage. At 8 hours/day, that works out to about 11+ days.

    I'm considering getting a set of 200W solar panels and deep cycle batteries. It can keep essential appliances running with a small inverter. The fridge is okay, but keeping the freezer cold likely isn't viable once the gas runs out.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    From experience, I have enough to run the Genny 100 hours if I maxxed out my gas storage. At 8 hours/day, that works out to about 11+ days.

    I'm considering getting a set of 200W solar panels and deep cycle batteries. It can keep essential appliances running with a small inverter. The fridge is okay, but keeping the freezer cold likely isn't viable once the gas runs out.

    Keep in mind the zone we are in is an average 4.5hrs of insolation per day (average equivalent direct sunlight per day, over the course of the year. Factors in overcast).

    10% loss to charging efficiency. 10% loss for inverted efficiency.

    200w solar panel is only going to average about 720wh of power.

    A typical 20cu-ft fridge/freezer is going to use about 1500wh per day. A similar size chest freezer is going to be around 1000wh.

    You probably want a bit of “safety” factor on that. As well as extra storage for when there is several days of bad weather.

    So figure around 300w for a 20cu-ft Chester freezer or 500w for the same size fridge. Figure about 2kwh of battery storage for that chest freezer or 3kwh for the fridge.

    Honestly that why I haven’t bothered doing much. To cover my chest freezer and one of my two fridges I am probably looking at around $800-1200 in batteries and around $1000 in solar panels. Plus a $200 or so inverter, $100-200 charger. Probably $300 in panel mounts and wiring.

    A 200w panel, deep cycle battery and inverted is more the kind of thing to keep a mini fridge and a few lights going, batteries charged. Perhaps you could use it to cut down on generator use some (not exactly a bad thing).

    When I tear down my old shed and build a new one I plan to put solar in to it with it connected back to my main panel through a selector switch and my generator interlock.

    I am likely to only do a 120v solar system, so only half my panel would get powered and the well pump is either not going to run, or not be happy (IE use for only very short duration). I’d have to double check, but I am pretty sure the circuit for my kitchen fridge and basement fridge and chest freezer are on the same phase (is to change the panel so they are on the same phase) and can ensure my boiler pumps are on the same phase also.

    Anyway, I was looking to put in a minimum of 2kwh of battery and probably more like 3-5. Also at least 600w of panels. Probably more like 1000w

    Goal isn’t necessarily to run my whole house on it. Even for short periods of time. Just so that I can supplement my generator. Run silent at night, but allow the fridge/freezers to be chilling overnight. Have some lights and stuff. Ceiling fans. Basement heat to work. Daytime switch everything off and let the batteries charge up. Run the generator daytime just a bit here and there for day running the well pump for showers, central heat if needed. Etc. could cut it to like half an hour and get everyone showered. Run it a little longer to do a load of laundry every once in awhile and mine dry it. Sunny days switch over to solar for part of the day too after the batteries have hit max charge. Prolonged bad weather/overcast use the generator a little more.

    Absent prolonged outages, my shed/workshop should be able to run on solar 100% with that much power and storage.

    Budget and roof space allowing I’d probably go for a little more. Or leave it so I can expand the system over time. Say start with 3x200w panels and 2kwh of storage and double the panels and triple the storage eventually.
     

    CanDoEZ

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 23, 2008
    2,591
    SoMD
    Another of my to do list..... A generator baffle box. Nothing attracts "friends" during an extended outage like a generator.
     

    6-Pack

    NRA Life Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 17, 2013
    5,646
    Carroll Co.
    Adding that to my list.

    Off topic but it would a horrible catastrophe if the honey dipper truck dumped its load on a protest march route...

    Are you guys really having your septics pumped in preparation of the second wave? I usually go every 2 years (which is more often than necessary) and I’m not due until next year.
     

    CanDoEZ

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 23, 2008
    2,591
    SoMD
    Are you guys really having your septics pumped in preparation of the second wave? I usually go every 2 years (which is more often than necessary) and I’m not due until next year.

    I'm due anyway. As for getting it done because of the "second wave" I think COVID will just be an annoying factor compared to the other potential XXXXstorms brewing.
     

    Alan3413

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 4, 2013
    16,921
    Keep in mind the zone we are in is an average 4.5hrs of insolation per day (average equivalent direct sunlight per day, over the course of the year. Factors in overcast).

    10% loss to charging efficiency. 10% loss for inverted efficiency.

    200w solar panel is only going to average about 720wh of power.

    A typical 20cu-ft fridge/freezer is going to use about 1500wh per day. A similar size chest freezer is going to be around 1000wh.

    You probably want a bit of “safety” factor on that. As well as extra storage for when there is several days of bad weather.

    So figure around 300w for a 20cu-ft Chester freezer or 500w for the same size fridge. Figure about 2kwh of battery storage for that chest freezer or 3kwh for the fridge.

    Honestly that why I haven’t bothered doing much. To cover my chest freezer and one of my two fridges I am probably looking at around $800-1200 in batteries and around $1000 in solar panels. Plus a $200 or so inverter, $100-200 charger. Probably $300 in panel mounts and wiring.

    A 200w panel, deep cycle battery and inverted is more the kind of thing to keep a mini fridge and a few lights going, batteries charged. Perhaps you could use it to cut down on generator use some (not exactly a bad thing).

    When I tear down my old shed and build a new one I plan to put solar in to it with it connected back to my main panel through a selector switch and my generator interlock.

    I am likely to only do a 120v solar system, so only half my panel would get powered and the well pump is either not going to run, or not be happy (IE use for only very short duration). I’d have to double check, but I am pretty sure the circuit for my kitchen fridge and basement fridge and chest freezer are on the same phase (is to change the panel so they are on the same phase) and can ensure my boiler pumps are on the same phase also.

    Anyway, I was looking to put in a minimum of 2kwh of battery and probably more like 3-5. Also at least 600w of panels. Probably more like 1000w

    Goal isn’t necessarily to run my whole house on it. Even for short periods of time. Just so that I can supplement my generator. Run silent at night, but allow the fridge/freezers to be chilling overnight. Have some lights and stuff. Ceiling fans. Basement heat to work. Daytime switch everything off and let the batteries charge up. Run the generator daytime just a bit here and there for day running the well pump for showers, central heat if needed. Etc. could cut it to like half an hour and get everyone showered. Run it a little longer to do a load of laundry every once in awhile and mine dry it. Sunny days switch over to solar for part of the day too after the batteries have hit max charge. Prolonged bad weather/overcast use the generator a little more.

    Absent prolonged outages, my shed/workshop should be able to run on solar 100% with that much power and storage.

    Budget and roof space allowing I’d probably go for a little more. Or leave it so I can expand the system over time. Say start with 3x200w panels and 2kwh of storage and double the panels and triple the storage eventually.

    This is good guidance. I can see that I'm way off on my panel estimate. I think long term I might be better off relying on non-perishables and keeping a small battery reserve for electronics.
     

    CanDoEZ

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 23, 2008
    2,591
    SoMD
    Y'all knuckle heads need to loosen your tinfoil.

    Your Individual Mileage May Vary.... personally I like to chew on a little bit of tinfoil.

    But hey, who would of predicted six months ago that the government would actually force people to stay home and close businesses for months on end under penalty of law. Or that a wave of nationwide social unrest would break out. Heck we have a long hot summer coming and we aren't even to the election yet... COVID or no COVID.
     

    marko

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Jan 28, 2009
    7,048
    Kind of a learning lesson - just lost power for 2 1/2 hours and my neighbor is quite upset.
    He can't calm down.

    I go into my van and charge my dead phone and listen to a re-run of the Sports Junkies on 106.7 fm.
    Very good. They are not #1 in morning drive because they stink.
    Then the power is back on.
    Puts things into perspective.
     

    Jimbob2.0

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 20, 2008
    16,600
    Kind of a learning lesson - just lost power for 2 1/2 hours and my neighbor is quite upset.
    He can't calm down.

    I go into my van and charge my dead phone and listen to a re-run of the Sports Junkies on 106.7 fm.
    Very good. They are not #1 in morning drive because they stink.
    Then the power is back on.
    Puts things into perspective.

    Wonder how he did during the derecho of other storms that took many of us out for a week to 10 days. A bit uncomfortable, not hard to survive with minor preparedness. First world issues like keeping fish in aquariums alive were an issue. I remember an idiot threatening to take a swing at me over a diesel pump because he didn't have cash and the credit cards weren't working and he wouldn't relinquish is spot in line. Again with basic supplies........its a first world problem. Encourage at a minimum least basic supplies such as 30 days of food, 7 days of water and ability to filter, basic + first aid gear, coms and of course self defense. Figure I am past that but could I hunker down for 6 months probably not without significant discomfort.
     

    Alan3413

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 4, 2013
    16,921
    Remember to add both prescription and regular meds to your prep. For the last few months, Pepcid has been very hard to come by, and Tylenol was wiped off the shelves. Even something mundane like Vit C was a little hard to find. It's a good idea to stock up on these as well as prescription meds.

    Most insurance will pay for a 90 day supply of meds, but you can pay out-of-pocket for more. Generics don't cost a lot and it's worthwhile to have a min 180 day supply in case you don't feel like venturing out for a while.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,154
    We’re starting to prepare for the second wave (new shelving unit inbound) now that many items are back in stock (flour, yeast, pasta, etc...). Is anyone else starting to prepare for the second wave? If so, anything you are doing different this time around?

    We also ordered some more mason jars to can the garden, which is bigger than usual this year.

    This was a good practice run and yes I’m rethinking everything now.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    Real estate market is moving houses nicely right now.

    I can sell it with her in it. The problem is we’d have to disclose she is behind on rent as it’s a lien. I doubt many would be willing to buy a house with 6-8 months left on a lease with a tenant who isn’t paying rent.
     

    gwchem

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 18, 2014
    3,434
    SoMD
    I can sell it with her in it. The problem is we’d have to disclose she is behind on rent as it’s a lien. I doubt many would be willing to buy a house with 6-8 months left on a lease with a tenant who isn’t paying rent.

    Doesn't selling the house give an opportunity to cancel the lease?
     

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