AAPD - Chokehold Policy

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  • Luigi

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Aug 4, 2010
    655
    Will there be a fentanyl policy for criminals?
     

    [Kev308]

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 23, 2020
    3,800
    Maryland
    Use of Force policies are being re-written to the point that lethal force is only to be used if there is NO other option. If the officer can escape from their attacker, they'll have to do that. Read the policies carefully.
    I think of it as a police chase with a motorcycle. They are told to stand down, get the plate number, and then give them a no knock at 4:30.

    (I made up the last part)
     

    Slowhand

    Pre-Banned
    Dec 13, 2011
    1,869
    In a van, down by the river.
    "To whom it may concern: It has come to our attention that you may have committed a crime. To avoid any potential conflict we would appreciate if would make an appointment to report to a nearby police station where a counselor will be waiting to assist you. If you took property that didn't belong to you, a property disposition specialist will see that you receive a fully transferable notarized statement of assumed ownership. You need not bring the property in. If you assaulted someone they likely deserved it. We will ensure you receive an written apology suitable for framing. We hope you remain a satisfied criminal."
     

    HoCoShooter

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 25, 2009
    3,517
    Howard County
    Policies that classify all choke holds and neck restraints as deadly force are ignorant at best. Choke holds are a part of almost every viable modern martial art - BJJ in particular. In addition there's a huge difference between a head lock and a choke hold as any 8 year old on the playground can attest.

    Choke holds, when properly applied, are extremely effective and extremely safe. I know this from first hand experience. I've seen multiple suspects subdued without injury using choke holds where the only other alternative was gunfire. Choke holds save lives - Police and private citizen alike.

    Something a lot of folks forget is that the Rodney King disaster was largely a result of the LAPD prohibiting the choke hold. King was on PCP and repeatedly attacked Officers. The early prototype Tasers failed to subdue him. The only options left (given what was available to LAPD at the time) were the baton and the firearm. The Officers did what they were trained to do and what they were told was the humane thing to do - namely they hit Rodney King with their PR-24s until he stopped getting up. The result was horrifying to look at and completely avoidable had Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint been available. I will also mention, as a side note, that once upon a time I was issued a PR-24 and was hit with it in training. The nightsticks used to hit King are roughly the same weight as a loaf of Wonder Bread and they're hollow. They sting but getting hit with one is in no way comparable to being struck with a metal ASP or a wooden straight baton and far preferable to being shot.

    The choke hold should be listed in any use of force continuum in the same category as the Taser or the nightstick. Taking this tool away from Police is a huge mistake and one that will have long lasting consequences. The folks making these decisions don't understand how actual street fights operate; either that or they don't care.


    Exactly - agencies need to be providing MORE training on how to effectively restrain with chokeholds (technically strangle, but that word brings out the angry feelings) so that officers have more options before using true lethal force.

    Kinda related, didn't the whole Rodney King incident actually start when a single female officer was unable to effectively restrain him and needed to call for backup? I believe that's when the other officers showed up, but maybe I'm misremembering.
     

    welder516

    Deplorable Welder
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    27,307
    Underground Bunker
    The cop that murdered GF will have a negative impact on cops for years to come , that is why good cops (majority) need to find a way to weed out the bad cops . Because it is the good guys that will lose in the end and good cops will die .
    But to take away a tool of self defense when the criminals follow no rules/laws is a downright shame .
     

    MJD438

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2012
    5,849
    Somewhere in MD
    iu

    Another work of fiction to add to my list of "entertainment, not instruction"
     

    FrankOceanXray

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 29, 2008
    12,028
    As a former LEO with a lot of friends still on the job I can tell you you are correct. Many are looking for other careers or laterals to small departments or LE agencies that don't see a lot of crazyness. Both of my stepsons (both LEOs) are considering a career change.

    As a current LEO, I know.

    I have heard the stories of the old days.. as in old, old Prince George's County with warning shots and in between just this morning. While I don't agree with it all, I am not out of touch.

    It is a race to 20 years for many at this time...
     

    arts

    Member
    Nov 14, 2014
    63
    The Police just don't go around and look for people to put in choke holds. If a choke hold is needed it is because they are in danger. They should have the ability to do what is necessary to put a non compliant person into custody.
     

    Blaster229

    God loves you, I don't.
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 14, 2010
    46,410
    Glen Burnie
    Exactly - agencies need to be providing MORE training on how to effectively restrain with chokeholds (technically strangle, but that word brings out the angry feelings) so that officers have more options before using true lethal force.

    It's not a strangle. Strangle is cutting off air to the subject.

    A proper chokehold uses the bicep and forearm cutting off circulation in the carotids(with the pit of the elbow/inside part) protecting the trachea so it doesn't get crushed and strangle the subject.
    The tiniest bit of blood supply cut off to the grape puts them right out temporarily. Like not long at all, just enough for you to get the one up on them.
     

    travistheone

    Usual Suspect
    Dec 11, 2008
    5,600
    cockeysville
    It's not a strangle. Strangle is cutting off air to the subject.

    A proper chokehold uses the bicep and forearm cutting off circulation in the carotids(with the pit of the elbow/inside part) protecting the trachea so it doesn't get crushed and strangle the subject.
    The tiniest bit of blood supply cut off to the grape puts them right out temporarily. Like not long at all, just enough for you to get the one up on them.

    it's hard to draw a hard line there. lot's of debate among the community that frequently practices these techniques (BJJ). John Danaher refers them as strangles. Many would say that choking happens internally i.e. on a piece of food and strangulation occurs externally i.e. a forearm and bicep. to make matters more confusing the rear naked choke (and about 1,000,000 others) are external, and regardless of cutting off air or blood are typically referred to as chokes.

    that being said, the safety of "blood choke" is much higher than a "air choke", in training most "air chokes" will cause a tap due to pain or fear of permanent damage. Blood chokes cause a tap due to the impending lack of consciousness, the true ender of any fight.

    i think there does need to be a distinction drawn, due to the close similarity of both techniques but the large delta in efficacy and safety. crushing someones wind pipe is not going to end up ok, there is a lot that can go wrong. causing someone to lose consciousness due to restricted blood flow is very safe. the biggest risk would be them hitting their head if they fall to the ground.

     

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