Your favorite SBR length

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  • calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Your golden gate bridge comparison is actually quite an apt comparison, but not in the way you thought it would be. Jumping off of a diving board, you can dive 9 or 10 feet down without swimming. People who have ended up in a dive off of the golden gate bridge go *significantly* deeper, and many have survived. There was a teenager a couple years ago that not only survived a dive, but was swimming back to shore when the coast guard picked him up.

    Guess it also depends on how you hit the water. My diving technique sure as hell is not good enough to slice through the water. Very interesting none the less. I am more the semi wad cutter bullet, not the Spitzer ;)
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Guess it also depends on how you hit the water. My diving technique sure as hell is not good enough to slice through the water. Very interesting none the less. I am more the semi wad cutter bullet, not the Spitzer ;)

    Yeah. Too bad he’s wrong.
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Yeah. Too bad he’s wrong.

    LOL. I think on the high diving thing you are both right. I now recall in a physics class discussing how surface area matters when impacting the water under those circumstances.

    Of course we are discussing bullet penetration versus barrel length and there seems to be a lot of factors.
     

    gre24ene

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2012
    1,519
    I have been looking for a higher end 12.5" upper for a few weeks and there is literally NOTHING. The only thing out there is cheap crap I wouldn't take a chance with.

    If anyone has a lead on an AR upper with a 12.5-13.7" barrel, a hand guard that is 1"-1.5" less than barrel. Preferably M-LOK, but key mod will work. Rail needs to be sturdy because I will be mounting a DBAL to it. Bonus if it has an adjustable gas block. Muzzle device doesn't matter since I will be putting a suppressor mount on it.

    Thinking of just building it, but I have not built an upper before. I have lost track of the lowers I've built, but sadly haven't done any uppers. And I'm not sure I can actually sorce decent parts right now.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    LOL. I think on the high diving thing you are both right. I now recall in a physics class discussing how surface area matters when impacting the water under those circumstances.

    Energy matters, too. I'm not arguing high dives, you are carrying very little energy. Surface area does matter, to a degree. Jump off the Golden Gate bridge and the water becomes very concrete-like. Bones break, organs get damaged, aortas tear. What you are hitting cannot be displaced fast enough for the energy to get absorbed into what you are hitting, be it drywall or water, so the energy gets directed back into the object that is moving.
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Yeah. Too bad he’s wrong.

    Now here's something that is very interesting:

    From Terminal Ballistic Performance of the 5.56mm Cartridge

    "An extremely important point to address is the question of velocity. Many people are obsessed with using the highest-velocity ammunition possible. his is a bad choice as penetration is usually DECREASED with increased velocity. Several topics in the FAQ address this issue, but it's important to reiterate that point here. Bullets are designed to perform properly within a certain velocity range. Too low of a velocity will cause the bullet not to expand and can lead to overpenetration. Too high a velocity, and the bullet's additional impact energy will lead to violent expansion and/or fragmentation and result in a large loss of momentum; in these cases, the bullet can actually UNDERPENETRATE."

    Study is here: http://www.mlefiaa.org/files/ERPR/Terminal_Ballistic_Performance.pdf
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    I have been looking for a higher end 12.5" upper for a few weeks and there is literally NOTHING. The only thing out there is cheap crap I wouldn't take a chance with.

    If anyone has a lead on an AR upper with a 12.5-13.7" barrel, a hand guard that is 1"-1.5" less than barrel. Preferably M-LOK, but key mod will work. Rail needs to be sturdy because I will be mounting a DBAL to it. Bonus if it has an adjustable gas block. Muzzle device doesn't matter since I will be putting a suppressor mount on it.

    Thinking of just building it, but I have not built an upper before. I have lost track of the lowers I've built, but sadly haven't done any uppers. And I'm not sure I can actually sorce decent parts right now.

    My go-to, which is BCM, shows everything OOS. Looks like you are going to have to build your own or wait.
     

    gre24ene

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2012
    1,519
    My go-to, which is BCM, shows everything OOS. Looks like you are going to have to build your own or wait.

    BCM was my first choice. I contacted them, asking do they have an ETA when a specific item would be in stock and they said "No idea".

    I have been looking at Triarc uppers, but they are close to double the $ of a BCM.

    I can order a Daniel Defense upper through "ExpertVoice" for a decent price. The only thing stopping me is the 'up to 4 month wait time'. Admittedly patience is one of my bigger flaws.

    The main thing stopping me from building an upper is I would end up spending a pretty big pile of $ just getting the tools to build it correctly.
     

    gre24ene

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2012
    1,519
    Nope - it's an option. I got one that was not pinned and welded.

    My mistake. I've looked at so many uppers online that it is a blur at this point.

    14.5 is a little longer than I want but I may have to go this route.
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    This BCM upper is a registered SBR and not pinned and welded. Only down side is that some folks will point out the dwell time for a 14.5" middy is low. I am willing to take that hit for the added sight radius.
     

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    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    My mistake. I've looked at so many uppers online that it is a blur at this point.

    14.5 is a little longer than I want but I may have to go this route.

    Well I have a 10.5, a 12.5 and a 14.5. Between the 12 and 14 I don't know which one I like best; good luck figuring that out. :) You could do a lot worse than the BCM 14.5 middy IMHO.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I have been looking for a higher end 12.5" upper for a few weeks and there is literally NOTHING. The only thing out there is cheap crap I wouldn't take a chance with.

    If anyone has a lead on an AR upper with a 12.5-13.7" barrel, a hand guard that is 1"-1.5" less than barrel. Preferably M-LOK, but key mod will work. Rail needs to be sturdy because I will be mounting a DBAL to it. Bonus if it has an adjustable gas block. Muzzle device doesn't matter since I will be putting a suppressor mount on it.

    Thinking of just building it, but I have not built an upper before. I have lost track of the lowers I've built, but sadly haven't done any uppers. And I'm not sure I can actually sorce decent parts right now.
    If you’re willing to wait and are okay with a nitrided barrel, I suggest Triarc Systems midlength 12.5” (or longer) custom upper. Pinned superlative arms gas block, 11.5” (or longer) wedge lock rail, lots of other good choices. You can order it without a muzzle device or pick from what they have, get the device pinned, etc. I would probably order without a BCG and source a proper phosphated one, but I’m sure their nitrided one is okay if you just want a complete package.

    You’ll probably wait 10-15 weeks for it, but I don’t think that’s to be unexpected in COVIDpocalypse + election year.

    https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-complete-upper-receiver-w-track-2-0-barrel/
     

    gre24ene

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 6, 2012
    1,519
    If you’re willing to wait and are okay with a nitrided barrel, I suggest Triarc Systems midlength 12.5” (or longer) custom upper. Pinned superlative arms gas block, 11.5” (or longer) wedge lock rail, lots of other good choices. You can order it without a muzzle device or pick from what they have, get the device pinned, etc. I would probably order without a BCG and source a proper phosphated one, but I’m sure their nitrided one is okay if you just want a complete package.

    You’ll probably wait 10-15 weeks for it, but I don’t think that’s to be unexpected in COVIDpocalypse + election year.

    https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-complete-upper-receiver-w-track-2-0-barrel/

    I've been looking hard at those. Like I said the wait is 10 weeks i think
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    I've been looking hard at those. Like I said the wait is 10 weeks i think
    Yep. About the only difference between them and some of the others is that they will actually take your order. Hard to say if it’s worth it or not, but I like my triarc 12.5” midlength barrel that I added into a geissele parts kit build from Black Friday.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,810
    If you’re willing to wait and are okay with a nitrided barrel, I suggest Triarc Systems midlength 12.5” (or longer) custom upper. Pinned superlative arms gas block, 11.5” (or longer) wedge lock rail, lots of other good choices. You can order it without a muzzle device or pick from what they have, get the device pinned, etc. I would probably order without a BCG and source a proper phosphated one, but I’m sure their nitrided one is okay if you just want a complete package.

    You’ll probably wait 10-15 weeks for it, but I don’t think that’s to be unexpected in COVIDpocalypse + election year.

    https://triarcsystems.com/product/triarc-complete-upper-receiver-w-track-2-0-barrel/
    12.5" midlength gas? How picky an eater is it?
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    12.5" midlength gas? How picky an eater is it?
    The 12.5” triarc midlength is kind of their flagship barrel. You can find a lot of reviews on the internet. Dwell time isn’t much different than carbine 10.5”. The suppressor I bought for it (turbo k in direct thread setup) didn’t show up until recently, so I will have to see how it runs with that. It did fine with a Griffin Optimus before now though, so I don’t anticipate issues. Shot mostly wolf gold and some magtech mk262 clone.

    If anything I anticipate the slightly higher back pressure turbo k will let me run really anemic loads through it, not that I’ve had a malfunction yet.
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    Yep. About the only difference between them and some of the others is that they will actually take your order. Hard to say if it’s worth it or not, but I like my triarc 12.5” midlength barrel that I added into a geissele parts kit build from Black Friday.

    Wow - and I thought I was pushing it with a 14.5" middy. Isn't that like a 0.5" for dwell time??
     

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