6.5 PRC; Wave of the Future or Fad?

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  • calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    The short fat cartridges with high BC bullets and a fast barrel twist seem to be the wave of the future; or are they just the latest fad? I think the 6.5 PRC looks really good on paper and with reasonable recoil.

    Thoughts?
     

    Wheaton Hills Sportsman

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2012
    422
    I am reminded of the "short magnum" cartridges, like .270 WSSM, some PRC or Creed more cartridges will survive. Yet 6.5 x 55 mm will always be with us.
     

    Jerry M

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 13, 2007
    1,688
    Glen Burnie MD
    6.5x284, 6.5-06, 6.5 Remington Magnum, .264 Winchester & probably others will drive the same bullet weights to the same velocities within the normal variance of the barrel speed. What it has going for it is Hornady's superior marketing department.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Wave of what future?

    Future of long range hunting (which is not that popular)
     

    DavidA

    The Master of Disaster
    Dec 6, 2013
    371
    Annapolis
    I think that 6.5 PRC all the 6.5 Creedmoor they are all marketing driven cartridges. Just like the new 6.8 Western. They are all over bore cartridges. They offer performance increases over standard cartridges like 270 win, but if you get a proper twist barrel with hand loads you approach there performance and you have all of the benefits associated with the base cartridges.

    All my bolt guns are the following cartridges, 260 Rem, 308 win, 270 win, 284 win and 338 win Mag. They all have barrels with appropriate twist rates to shoot all the heavies. They all will give reasonable barrel life, I can find components and brass all day. Each has its place to match a intended philosophy off use.

    Once you start buying the hype and you go down the rabbit hole it is a never ending chase always looking for the better slicer and dicer. It okay. If that what you love doing. Do it. I just have that practical side to me of weighing cost vs benefit.

    That deer out there at 300 yds has no idea if it got hit with a .277 165 gr bullet going 2,000 ft/sec or if it was going 2,150 ft/sec. it is dead.

    So to answer your question to me it is all fad. The 270 win, 308 wins, 338 wi mags will be with us forever. As technology in bullets and powder move foreword those wishing to get the extra performance can simply switch barrels and acquire new billets and powder.

    How many people are hair splitters looking for the little edge? Apparently a lot. Will it remain as such. Not until the come out with plasma rifles for me.


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    C&RTactical

    Active Member
    Jul 24, 2013
    407
    6.5 Creedmoor chambering and ammo is more common. Haven't checked the external ballistics on 6.5 PRC, but is it enough to have an even more custom chambering for what performance gain you get?

    I have a friend who went to a precision shooting class with a Remington 700 in .308 with his dialed in 168 grain load, but found himself unable to hit a target at 700 yards with it. A couple that was also there just bought a Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 Creedmoor for that class had no problems all day at any distance even though the were basically new to long range shooting. He recommends any getting into long range shooting at least get 6.5 Creedmoor.

    So in the case of that story 6.5 and it's mainstream poster child, 6.5 Creedmoor, are definitely here to stay and hopefully take over. I know SOCOM uses it in their rifles and some machine guns.
     

    steves1911

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 2, 2011
    3,026
    On a hill in Wv
    It's all about marketing. If tomorrow hornady comes out with a 25 caliber 130+gr eldm with a bc around .6 and announces a new 25 caliber cartridge and touts it as better than all the rest with less recoil, then proceeds to advertise the hell out of it the same thing would happen. Many people have to have the latest and greatest even if the benefits are so minuscule most will never see the difference. Why else was the 260 all but dead yet people are falling all over themselves claiming the 6.5 creed as the be all end all?
     

    KRC

    Active Member
    Sep 30, 2018
    615
    Cecil County MD
    The OP's post was not about the 6.5 Creedmoor, it was about the 6.5PRC, which has been described as a "Creedmoor on steroids". As far as I can determine, it's use and advantage is in longer range precision target shooting, where small advantages in velocity and associated BC can mean the difference between 1st and 2nd place. When investment in the game is high, replacing a barrel 2 or 3 times a season (~$600-ish with BR chambering) is not a big deal. It probably offers a limited ballistic advantage other existing cartridges for hunting, but that's for the individual hunter to determine.

    For the average "me and Bubba are goin' to the range" target shooter, the PRC's advantages may be less evident, as might it's value over more barrel friendly cartridges. Again, up to the shooter. The longevity of the 6.5PRC cartridge will probably be in the hands of competitive LR shooters, who will all load their own ammo.

    I believe the 6.5 Creedmoor is a different story. It is a shorter/fatter more efficient 6.5x55Swede. Relatively easy to tune to excellent precision with reasonable barrel life (reportedly ~2500 before precision drops off). And it works in a gasgun configuration. (That alone is a big deal w.r.t. longevity in the U.S..) Good to 600 yards and beyond. Very wide acceptance and good ammo availability (in "normal" times). I'd bet it's here to stay. (I have both 6.5CM and 6.5x55S rifles.) All the advantages of the Creedmoor also help with hunting applications. Where the 6.5x55S is a standard hunting cartridge in Europe and elsewhere, the 6.5CM will likely slowly displace this and other cartridges for hunting (.260 and .243) in the U.S..

    You want a uber-hyped flash-in-the-pan cartridge? Try Federal's 224Valkyrie.
     

    atblis

    Ultimate Member
    May 23, 2010
    2,011
    I think it's a little silly because why bother with a short action? You want to shoot long range, go long action. The benefits of a short action are mostly imaginary IMO. Also, 6.5mm is a little on the small side to take advantage of all that powder. Make it a 7mm, and it would be better. Is it a terrible cartridge? nah. It'll be fun to shoot, probably easy to tune, and will get the job done. Lapua's making brass for it.
     

    DavidA

    The Master of Disaster
    Dec 6, 2013
    371
    Annapolis
    It's all about marketing. If tomorrow hornady comes out with a 25 caliber 130+gr eldm with a bc around .6 and announces a new 25 caliber cartridge and touts it as better than all the rest with less recoil, then proceeds to advertise the hell out of it the same thing would happen. Many people have to have the latest and greatest even if the benefits are so minuscule most will never see the difference. Why else was the 260 all but dead yet people are falling all over themselves claiming the 6.5 creed as the be all end all?


    Absolutely correct. The 260 Rem is IMHO a better cartridge than the 6.5 Creedmoor. Sorry folks if that’s a sensitive spot for some of you. But for 90% of what we use the rifle for it just simply is. What is the difference between 260 Rem and 6.5 Creedmoor? Marketing and in the Military’s case production capability. The 260 Rem is the most underrated cartridge ever. It only caught on in Precision rifle competition groups, but in the quest for lighter recoil loads the Fad now is 6 mm Creedmoor. Even here is the 243 win any worse or better than the Creedmoor. Does not matter because marketing and bringing cost effective components to market Trump everything. I have three 260 Rems , two AR’s and a bolt gun. You could not pay me enough to substitute a Creedmoor. This is based upon logical decision not marketing influenced behavior. Are the 6 Creed and 6.5 Creeds great cartridges. Hell yeah. And the were marketed and supported by product. Something that they failed at drastically with the 260 Rem. And now the 6 ARC. The 6mm Predator, 243 LBC, 6 mm AR, 6mm Fat Rat, 6 mm AR Turbo have existed for the better part of a decade. They are all basically a 6.5 Grendel necked to 6mm. Yes the Turbo and Fat rat have modified the shoulder of the case. But take a 243 LBC case put it next to a 6mm ARC case. With the naked eyed tell me the difference. I think the neck is 2 thousandths shorter. Any hoot, in today’s world it is all marketing. What marketing does over time to adjust the perception of the individuals view of the product.

    I did love the idea of the 6mm Grendel round. But I could not justify getting one. I have two 264 LBC’s a 20” and a 24” barrel. You just can not justify another cartridge when a 130 gr RDF will do everything a 6 mm ARC cartridge will do. In some cases better. A 6mm ARC shooting a 115 gr Berger VLD from a 24” at 2,700 fps ( hot load) at sea level 100 mph cross wind, 200 yd zero at 1,000 yds has 8.89 mills drop and 2.08 mills drift. That is dam impressive for a little 6 mm pill. Right ? My 264 LBC can shoot a 130 gr RDF at roughly
    2,650 fps. At 1,000 yds, at sea level same variables 9.09 mills drop, 1.94 mills drift. What is the difference? A hair more drop but less drift. Ballistically they are so close you can slide a piece of paper between their results. But retained energy goes to the 6.5 with 549 ft lbs versus the 6 mm’s 474 ft lbs. the real advantage is recoil impulse. In a 10 lbs rifle build the 264 LBC has 7.91 ft/ lbs of recoil energy. The 6mm ARC has 6.94 ft/lbs. so roughly 1 less ft lbs of recoil. With muzzle breaks say a 1/2 ft lbs difference.

    This is where marketing comes in, it says it’s ballistically superior, less recoil, etc etc etc. you can buy match grade AMMO off the shelf. Etc etc. . In real world terms to me weighing the down range energy and drift I would go with the 6.5 setup all day. But marketing wins. Marketing always wins. And companies that do it well dominate.


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    Harrys

    Short Round
    Jul 12, 2014
    3,362
    SOMD
    I hear a lot of banter about developing loads with lighter recoil like the Creedmoor. To me it is a lot to do about nothing and all about marketing by companies that want you to believe they have the next greatest round. 308, 375, 30/30, 30/06, 45/70 and other completive rounds have been around for a long time and have proven their worth for their particular dynamics. The Creedmoor and rounds like it have yet to prove their worth. You can always tell the Pioneers from others as the Pioneers have arrows in their backs.
     

    DavidA

    The Master of Disaster
    Dec 6, 2013
    371
    Annapolis
    I hear a lot of banter about developing loads with lighter recoil like the Creedmoor. To me it is a lot to do about nothing and all about marketing by companies that want you to believe they have the next greatest round. 308, 375, 30/30, 30/06, 45/70 and other completive rounds have been around for a long time and have proven their worth for their particular dynamics. The Creedmoor and rounds like it have yet to prove their worth. You can always tell the Pioneers from others as the Pioneers have arrows in their backs.





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    DavidA

    The Master of Disaster
    Dec 6, 2013
    371
    Annapolis
    I am not knocking innovation and marketing. Hornady has done an incredible job. Introduced some solid cartridges and made match AMMO available to the masses.

    Not sure if Hornady is serving the PRS market or creating the PRS market. Whatever it is, hats off to them. Great business model. If I did not hand load I would probably be leaning towards their cartridge selections. Find a need and fill it, or build a need and fill it. Either way the same results.


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    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    The average American hunter has never heard of 6.5PRC. Most have never heard of a .260 Remington, and if they saw .260 alone in print, would see a misprint for .270 Winchester. The 6.5 Creedmoor found favor with shooters who also hunt, and is now increasingly a familiar name with hunters as major manufacturers are now all offering rifles and suitable hunting ammo for the round. It is being marketed by both rifle and ammo manufacturers in a way the .260 Remington sadly was not.

    The 6.5's have long been a staple of European hunters, and with very good reason in my opinion. They're a absolute joy to shoot, are long range capable, and are more than enough for deer. But they were very slow to catch on here. Tradition is a powerful thing generally, and especially so with hunters.

    The Creedmoor will continue to cross over to hunters. The PRC, far too soon to tell, but I doubt it. The .260 will be about long range shooters and handloaders, which like some other fine cartridges is pretty much where poor marketing decisions and practices will have left it.
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    I am not knocking innovation and marketing. Hornady has done an incredible job. Introduced some solid cartridges and made match AMMO available to the masses.

    Not sure if Hornady is serving the PRS market or creating the PRS market. Whatever it is, hats off to them. Great business model. If I did not hand load I would probably be leaning towards their cartridge selections. Find a need and fill it, or build a need and fill it. Either way the same results.


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    If I didn't have similar sized cartridge and had to chose between the 6.5cm or the .260, 100% 6.5cm would be the choice. Factory ammo available easily, and reloading components are largely the same.

    Hornady has a great marketing dept, and creates lots of buzz backed with large manufacturers backing.

    As a consumer, there has never been better guns, barrels, presses, ammo and optics available. Consumer wins hands down.
     

    Uncle Duke

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 2, 2013
    11,667
    Not Far Enough from the City
    If I didn't have similar sized cartridge and had to chose between the 6.5cm or the .260, 100% 6.5cm would be the choice. Factory ammo available easily, and reloading components are largely the same.

    Hornady has a great marketing dept, and creates lots of buzz backed with large manufacturers backing.

    As a consumer, there has never been better guns, barrels, presses, ammo and optics available. Consumer wins hands down.

    Yep. Of the 2 options mentioned, that's exactly the choice that most people have been making for quite awhile now.

    With guys like me and a .260, no regrets. But it came to occur to me, probably better with each passing day, to have a closet full of brass.
     

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