SBR OAL?? 26? Less than 29?

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  • outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    MD generally does not used the term pistol except with regard to "assault pistols" (enumerated list of 15 pistols). In several parts of the law an SBR is defined as a handgun either by stating that an SBR is a handgun or defining a handgun as something with a barrel less than 16 in. The problem arises because the copy cat section that prohibits copy cat weapons does not contain any reference to those definitions. Definitions tend to be relevant to the particular sections they are defined in. Since an SBR is generally considered a rifle, it appears certain SBRs meet the definition of a copy cat weapon and are prohibited by that particular section.
    I'm not a lawyer, but my interpretation of the "pistol" reference generally applies to transport laws. Meaning, you can't keep one in your vehicle unless you are traveling to or from a range, gunsmith, FFL, work, etc. No stopping in between those destinations and your place of residence. The rest of the regs apply to rifles.
    Again, that's my personal interpretation of the statutes.
     

    Rabu Rabu

    Operatoroperatoroperator
    Sep 10, 2012
    333
    Cambridge, MD
    MD generally does not used the term pistol except with regard to "assault pistols" (enumerated list of 15 pistols). In several parts of the law an SBR is defined as a handgun either by stating that an SBR is a handgun or defining a handgun as something with a barrel less than 16 in. The problem arises because the copy cat section that prohibits copy cat weapons does not contain any reference to those definitions. Definitions tend to be relevant to the particular sections they are defined in. Since an SBR is generally considered a rifle, it appears certain SBRs meet the definition of a copy cat weapon and are prohibited by that particular section.

    Oh, I'm fully aware, it was more of a rhetorical question. Next question is - can we do anything about this because it seems nobody - MSP included - has a concrete reason on why it applies to SBR's outside of an interpretation of words that state nothing directly about SBR's.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    Oh, I'm fully aware, it was more of a rhetorical question. Next question is - can we do anything about this because it seems nobody - MSP included - has a concrete reason on why it applies to SBR's outside of an interpretation of words that state nothing directly about SBR's.
    Being there is practically no difference between an SBR and a pistol version of the same weapon, they'll happily tell you to pound sand. Lol
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    Oh, I'm fully aware, it was more of a rhetorical question. Next question is - can we do anything about this because it seems nobody - MSP included - has a concrete reason on why it applies to SBR's outside of an interpretation of words that state nothing directly about SBR's.

    I am not sure I would agree that there is an interpretation of words that state nothing directly about SBRs. The R in SBR is rifle after all.

    If you want to do something about it you could contact your MD representative and have them support a bill to have SBRs excluded from the definition of a copycat weapon.
     

    Rabu Rabu

    Operatoroperatoroperator
    Sep 10, 2012
    333
    Cambridge, MD
    I am not sure I would agree that there is an interpretation of words that state nothing directly about SBRs. The R in SBR is rifle after all.

    If you want to do something about it you could contact your MD representative and have them support a bill to have SBRs excluded from the definition of a copycat weapon.

    Thats certainly an option. Though there's probably no hope for that getting anywhere. It just seems so weird to me that they were good to go when they had to be rostered under 29" and now when they no longer have to be the 29" applies. Unless I'm reading into this wrong.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Thats certainly an option. Though there's probably no hope for that getting anywhere. It just seems so weird to me that they were good to go when they had to be rostered under 29" and now when they no longer have to be the 29" applies. Unless I'm reading into this wrong.

    Because they were considered handguns. That is why they had to be on the roster.

    But now, they don't have to be on the roster, so they are not handguns, as only handguns have to be on the roster.

    So their logic is somewhat consistent.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    Thats certainly an option. Though there's probably no hope for that getting anywhere. It just seems so weird to me that they were good to go when they had to be rostered under 29" and now when they no longer have to be the 29" applies. Unless I'm reading into this wrong.

    There is definitely no hope if you do not try.

    Because they were considered handguns. That is why they had to be on the roster.

    But now, they don't have to be on the roster, so they are not handguns, as only handguns have to be on the roster.

    So their logic is somewhat consistent.

    They are not handguns for the purposes of the roster. The handgun roster is a separate subtitle of the MD Code. The law was changed in 2015 to exclude SBRs from the handgun roster.

    http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/mgawebsite/Legislation/Details/hb0614/?ys=2015rs

    SBRs are handguns for certain other sections of the law however.
     

    jcutonilli

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 28, 2013
    2,474
    Then why are they ON the roster??????

    Because prior to Oct 2015 they were considered handguns for the purposes of the roster. I don't believe they take firearms off the roster if they no longer need to be there.

    Different sections of the law define handgun differently. The roster section (Public Safety Article Title 5 Subtitle 4) specifically excludes SBRs

    (c) Handgun. --
    (1) "Handgun" means a pistol, a revolver, or any other firearm capable of being concealed on the person.
    (2) "Handgun" does not include a shotgun, a rifle, a short-barreled rifle, a short-barreled shotgun, or an antique firearm.

    A previous subtitle (Public Safety Article Title 5 Subtitle 1) defines them differently
    (n) Handgun. --
    (1) "Handgun" means a firearm with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
    (2) "Handgun" includes signal, starter, and blank pistols.

    and SBR is a handgun for Subtitle 1 (regulated firearms) but not for Subtitle 4 (handgun roster).
     

    Tao_Haus

    Member
    Oct 11, 2013
    1
    That is not exactly correct. Only SBRs that are semiautomatic centerfire rifles need to be at least 29" OAL. Rimfire and non semiautomatic centerfire rifles do not have an OAL requirement in MD.

    Additionally any rifle less than 26" OAL is considered an SBR.
    I am trying to deal with a pistol with a stock (one currently on the registry as an SBR). Ala a Hi Power. Is it written anywhere that that is different than a centerfire rifle?
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    I am trying to deal with a pistol with a stock (one currently on the registry as an SBR). Ala a Hi Power. Is it written anywhere that that is different than a centerfire rifle?

    I'm racking my brain to remember if anyone ever made a HI Power clone in Rimfire ? No reason it couldn't be done , but I can't think of one . ( Stand by for licensing deal between Browning Arms and Umarex .)

    But presuming your firearm in question in a 9mm ( or .40 , or .30 ), then nope .
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    I am trying to deal with a pistol with a stock (one currently on the registry as an SBR). Ala a Hi Power. Is it written anywhere that that is different than a centerfire rifle?
    It might have something to do with the "copy cat" designation.


    Ill. Possession of "Copycat" weapon
    A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun that meets the definition of "copycat weapon" set
    forth in CR § 4-301 (e) (for example, "a semi-automatic centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less
    than 29 inches" or "a semi-automatic shotgun that has a folding stock") is an "assault weapon" and
    subject to the restrictions on transportation, possession, sale and receipt set forth in Title 4, Subtitle 3,
    of the Criminal Law Article.
     

    swinokur

    In a State of Bliss
    Patriot Picket
    Apr 15, 2009
    55,394
    Westminster USA
    As JCutonelli explained, it’s both because each section of the two laws covering it define them differently.

    One statute says an SBR is a handgun

    The other says any center fired rifle must be over 29 inches or it’s a copycat weapon and banned

    Ridiculous but true
     

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