In Troubled Times What Are You Using As Substitutes?

JamesDong · Apr 4, 2021

What you see is what you got for 4 years in all probability. I'm pretty much out of large pistol primers so I'm using large rifle which I have many as subs. They seem to work just fine in the pistols I run them through.

What are you guys subbing for?

Trigger Time · Apr 4, 2021

That's a pretty grim outlook to think we have 4 more years of this. I will definitely be out of SPP before then , I guess I'll be looking to trade or try small rifle primers in the 9mm.

Biggfoot44 · Apr 4, 2021

Rifle primers are both harder and hotter than Pistol primers . Good for you they ignite in your gun(s) , but that's not something you can assume in random pistols .

Being even hotter than Magnum Pistol primers , it would involve working up suitable loads from scratch , not just substituting for Pistol primers . Not impossible , but requires careful work up .

JamesDong · Apr 5, 2021

Biggfoot44 said:
Rifle primers are both harder and hotter than Pistol primers . Good for you they ignite in your gun(s) , but that's not something you can assume in random pistols .

Being even hotter than Magnum Pistol primers , it would involve working up suitable loads from scratch , not just substituting for Pistol primers . Not impossible , but requires careful work up .

I've read they're the same "hotness" but a rifle primer takes a harder strike. True or not IDK but they work fine on 2 different cartridges, 2 different hand guns.

Grim outlook? nope, just realistic.... elections have consequences and we're screwed.

Melnic · Apr 5, 2021

Large rifle is taller than large pistol. Are you getting them flush with the bottom of the rim?
Why not do a trade?

ken792 · Apr 5, 2021

My friend is using nail gun charges. You can crush the rim with pliers and use the compound to reload spent primers. He also worked up a load for .38 Special using the powder and will work on 9mm next.

He got his hands on real powder and primers though, so he’s just doing that for an educational writeup.

ras_oscar · Apr 5, 2021

are you telling me not to empty the spent primer disposal tube on my Lee turrett press? Its pretty full at the moment.

ken792 · Apr 5, 2021

ras_oscar said:
are you telling me not to empty the spent primer disposal tube on my Lee turrett press? Its pretty full at the moment.

You can hammer out the dent in the cup and mix the crushed up compound with acetone or ethanol. The slurry resolidifies inside the cup. Seating it while the slurry is still wet prevents it from going off. As an added benefit, it’s basically the same amount of effort to reload a Berdan primer.

platekiller · Apr 5, 2021

I’ve actually gotten lucky trading and scoring from a couple local places periodically. I could use some SRP and after I get another 1000 bullets for 9mm then I’ll be out of SPP. I need some 224 projos now but those are available. Once I’m out of primers then I’ll keep an eye out for more. As long as I’m loading for half the cost of factory ammo then I guess it’s a win

JamesDong · Apr 5, 2021

Melnic said:
Large rifle is taller than large pistol. Are you getting them flush with the bottom of the rim?
Why not do a trade?

I use the Lee press primer tool, LOT of pressure and it seats well and it works well. No misfires.
As far as a trade goes I'm a good 10 hours away from most.

Pinecone · Apr 5, 2021

JamesDong said:
What you see is what you got for 4 years in all probability. I'm pretty much out of large pistol primers so I'm using large rifle which I have many as subs. They seem to work just fine in the pistols I run them through.

What are you guys subbing for?

This is NOT a good idea.

Large rifle primers are not the same dimensions. And can lead to high primers and slam fires.

JamesDong · Apr 5, 2021

Pinecone said:
This is NOT a good idea.

Large rifle primers are not the same dimensions. And can lead to high primers and slam fires.

Doubtful on my revolver..... autos might be another story.

Pinecone · Apr 5, 2021

That helps.

You did not specify before.

JamesDong · Apr 5, 2021

Pinecone said:
That helps.

You did not specify before.

You got me thinking measured both. .129 Vs .120, the rifle is slightly bigger in depth. Again using a press they fill in the pocket fine and the rifles do flatten out.

It's what I got to carry me the next 4 years.

lazarus · Apr 5, 2021

JamesDong said:
You got me thinking measured both. .129 Vs .120, the rifle is slightly bigger in depth. Again using a press they fill in the pocket fine and the rifles do flatten out.

It's what I got to carry me the next 4 years.

Just keep in mind LR and LP are not equivalent in terms of energy/ignition heat.

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm

They aren't an order of magnitude different, but still figure you are likely to need to step down your powder charge slightly if running close to maximum loads.

Remington LP and LR has a really wide range shown in this testing.

The power is not linear in the test, but it would be exponential. So a doubling of the value indicates 4x more imparted energy in to the test pendulum.

(so the LR are typically around twice the energy here as the LP).

JamesDong · Apr 5, 2021

lazarus said:
Just keep in mind LR and LP are not equivalent in terms of energy/ignition heat.

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm

They aren't an order of magnitude different, but still figure you are likely to need to step down your powder charge slightly if running close to maximum loads.

Remington LP and LR has a really wide range shown in this testing.

The power is not linear in the test, but it would be exponential. So a doubling of the value indicates 4x more imparted energy in to the test pendulum.

(so the LR are typically around twice the energy here as the LP).

Interesting site, not all primers are created equally, manufactures differ.

guzma393 · Apr 5, 2021

During the shortage I been "subbing" a few things:

- Got into reloading for 300 blackout and casting after my Go2 223 reloading comps started to run dry. Built a 300 blk 7.5" AR pistol and bought a 16" upper to primarily run 300 blkout. Its been my favorite cartridge to reload as of late; pings steel harder, 1# of powder can yield 500+ reloads, and bullets (casting and powder coating my own) are readily available. I'm interested in doing a form 1 to get the most out of my "subs"

- Turns out there is reloading data utilizing a 9mm 147 grain pill in 350 legend. Messed around a bit with that and it works great as range fodder on my bolt action; not sure if they will cycle on an AR 350L though.

- After taking 3-4 months to receive a 5k bulk 9mm projo order, I resorted to casting and powder coating for 9mm. Got lucky and scored a Lee 356/124 TC mold and been using it ever since.

- Scored a bunch of SRMP's and tried them in 9mm just to try; shot fine on my vp9. I primarily use them for 223 and 300 blk.

- Scored a fair bit of shooters world "blackout" powder; Ironically, I haven't tried it out on 300 blk yet, but worked decent on 223. I been reloading all of my one off #1 jugs as "spring cleaning"; charge on the low side strictly for steel blasting.

- Dabbled a bit on reloading primers and even berdan primed steel cased stuff. This is definitely a "last resort" effort to keep the presses moving. Lots of R&D done; results are 9mm drill ammo with a 1/20 failure to fire rate. Been reloading them in batches with date recorded as a means to rotate stock, still testing out shelf-life stability. I've since offset my SPP stocks for revolver reloads.

platekiller · Apr 5, 2021

So I lied earlier, I was subbing something before today. When we moved I lost some loading stuff it seems. I couldn’t find all the shell holders for my auto prime. I use the #19 (9mm) for 223 but the right one finally arrived today.

leomort · Apr 8, 2021

I heard you could substitute small rifle primer for small pistol primer, just need to back off on the powder charge. Also heard you need to keep in mind that rifle primer have thicker cup so your handgun might not have enough force to set-off the primer.

GunBum · Apr 8, 2021

leomort said:
I heard you could substitute small rifle primer for small pistol primer, just need to back off on the powder charge. Also heard you need to keep in mind that rifle primer have thicker cup so your handgun might not have enough force to set-off the primer.

True. During the last primer shortage, I used a lot of small rifle primers in pistols. They worked fine for some and had light strikes in others.

In Troubled Times What Are You Using As Substitutes?

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