Quality ammo vs not so quality ammo

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  • Duckncover

    Member
    Jan 14, 2021
    77
    howard county
    What are your thoughts on what brands are good quality ammunition and what brands are not quite as good? I’m mostly wondering about standard FMJ 223/556 and 9/45 and 22 (hunting and super expensive precision rounds excluded). I see tons of people on other forums saying things like “this stuff makes my gun dirty” or “this gun ran flawless except for a few malfunctions that I attribute to the ammo” and the like. I’ve never really noticed one being dirtier than the rest or any brand causing more malfunctions than any other. I have lots of WWB, Blazer, Herters, Federal, the list goes on. Just curious to see if theres certain brands that everyone agrees are better or worse than the rest.
     

    mopar92

    Official MDS Court Jester
    May 5, 2011
    9,513
    Taneytown
    For non specialty 5.56 Federal M193 is good. Crimped primers and case mouths and halfway decent ballistics in ballistic gel. Wolf Gold is reliable although I've heard of velocity variation issues in the latest lots. Prvi Partizan, IMI and Fiocchi (sp?) are also reputable

    M855 is shit ammo. Let everyone else worry about grabbing it.

    Steel cased is NOT dirtier than brass cased its just less flexible and doesn't seal the chamber as well.

    I personally stick with brands that supply militaries and buy their mil spec ammo line. Brown box M193 vs American Eagle or PMC X-Tac vs PMC Bronze for example.

    Someone else will be along shortly with YouTube links or charts.

    The biggest thing is to inspect every round before use. I have an M855 round taped to the top of my ammo can that has .25 inch bullet setback as an example of something that can blow up a gun if not caught.
     

    Ed Anger

    Active Member
    Jan 16, 2021
    112
    Gaithersburg, MD
    I'm with you. Some work hard to find the best groupings, etc. For me, good ammo is the kind that goes bang when you squeeze the trigger, doesn't foul any more than I can handle--and cycles in my gun without jamming. I'm not an Olympic shooter and the gun and the ammo always shoot better than I do. Just my 2 cents.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    I will comment on 22LR cause so much will be said on the other stuff.
    I spent about a year looking at 15 different brands/types of 22LR across about 12 different rifles and pistols
    I looked at rounds through a microscope and measured bullets OAL, rim thicknesses and case diameters
    Much of the "reliability" of 22LR comes down to the Rim itself
    Some manufacturers are known for fewer duds/misfires due to quality of how the gap inside the rim is and the distribution of the solution to ignite the powder.
    CCI being well known for the reliability of ignition and Remington being known for unreliability. After shooting many thousands of 22LR over the year, nearly all duds, you reinsert and rotate and it will go off.
    The other thing about the rim is the shape. The rim is flat near the case but then rounds out to a radius closer to the edge of the rim.
    CCI stays flatter further out and remington for example, rounds sooner.
    This affects a marginal extractor. CCI tends to be more reliable because the extractor has more flat area to grab and pull the round out.
    Consistancy of the case diameter also comes into play in tight chambers of semi autos.
    You will find that bulk packaged Lead Nose with wax on the lead bullet contributes some to unreliability with any wax coming off a bullet and building up on a case.
    Individually packaged rounds (Like 50 or 100 round CCI, ELEY etc separates them) keeps that from happening like in bulk packaging

    Most all the 22LR I looked at, the widest part of the bullet reached into the chamber almost the same, one, Remington, sat back some and actually ran MORE reliable in an old German Luger 22LR replica I had (Erma LA22). I later found that the chamber was reamed prior to sAMI specs and that taking a chamber reamer made that gun SOOO Much more reliable It really clued me in on the differences of bullet shapes.

    Back then it was "try all ammo and see what yours likes best" What I found was, this was true with reliability, but accuracy came by buying more expensive 22. Eley Match, Remington Target, CCI SV or even CCI Green Tag were of the best. Cheap American Eagle, Rem golden bullets were the worse. I would take my bolt Marli or Ruger 10/22 and make it noticably more accurate just by spending more $ on ammo.
    That being said, I've seen a guy at my range hitting a 6" plate @ 100 yards off hand 75% of the time with a single shot 22 using Remington Golden bullets from the bulk bucket. I bet he'd get more hits with CCI SV or Eley Match though.

    Cheaper guns tended to be more ammo sensitive (Beretta Neos, Mossberg Plinkster) Better guns (Browning Buckmark, Ruger 10/22) tended to be less ammo sensitive for reliability. There are always outliers for each brand of course.

    I reload pretty much everything however one day shooting Factory 223, Remington UMC was not so accurate (I was of course comparing to my reloads which may not be fair).
    I had REALLY good luck with both my first AR and my Dad's AR shooting the red box GECO 223 that came on plastic stripper clips. 1MOA @ 100 yards with his Bushmaster AR (yea, back in 2012, you could get a Bushmaster AR HBAR cash and carry)


    Want some good accurate factory ammo for shooting from the bench? Federal Gold Metal Match 223 and 308 are what i shot out of my most accurate AR and 308 Bolt rifle then measured groups and targeted my reloads to Meet or exceed the accuracy of that ammo.
     

    mpollan1

    Foxtrot Juliet Bravo
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 26, 2012
    6,540
    Мэриленд
    I'm with you. Some work hard to find the best groupings, etc. For me, good ammo is the kind that goes bang when you squeeze the trigger, doesn't foul any more than I can handle--and cycles in my gun without jamming. I'm not an Olympic shooter and the gun and the ammo always shoot better than I do. Just my 2 cents.

    I'll see your 2 cents and raise you $0.02. Just stated this to with my brother-in-law 3 or 4 hours ago. 2 MOA is good enough for me at the ranges I shoot and likely will shoot for the foreseeable future.
     

    TheOriginalMexicanBob

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 2, 2017
    32,168
    Sun City West, AZ
    I never liked Blazer aluminum cased due to the mess it made of the gun. This was years ago when it first came out and I haven't used it since. Maybe it's improved since then but I've avoided it. I try and stick with known brands like Federal, Winchester, Remington, Hornady and have also had good experiences with Sellier & Bellot, Aquila, Magtech, Double Tap and a few others.

    A friend attended law enforcement rifle instructor school and took his HBAR AR-15. His mistake was to use some el cheapo Norinco brand ammunition. He couldn't go twenty rounds before the rifle was so fouled he had to continually swab it out. A fellow student gave him enough decent ammunition to complete the course.
     

    temccoy

    Active Member
    Nov 13, 2020
    102
    Depends on what you want to with it. With some rare exceptions, factory ammo is going to reliably fire and give a decent group. If you are just plinking / having fun with it, a reputable brand is probably fine. If you need ammo for competition / accuracy, it is a different question. I agree with the previous post about Federal Gold Medal Match. My experience with it, (mostly .308 Winchester), has been that it is consistently accurate. If you can find it in today’s ammo market, the Israeli IMI 77 gn 5.56 ammo is also an excellent factory load. Very accurate and consistent. For rimfire, I would echo some of the previous comments. I have found CCI and Federal to be reliable .22 long rifle. I would avoid Remington and Winchester. Hope this helps.
     

    Tungsten

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 1, 2012
    7,230
    Elkridge, Leftistan
    When I practiced for an Appleseed I took 7-8 brands/types of ammo. Federal Automatch was the same accuracy as some expensive target brand (which I now forget). Also Eley tended to lead to failures to extract.

    Remington wasn't accurate, but was dirty as absolute hell. Since that time I only shoot automatch out of the 10/22.
     

    AssMan

    Meh...
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 27, 2011
    16,213
    Somewhere on the James River, VA
    Federal AE 9mm 115 is dirty IME. Wouldn't stop me from shooting it, but it's dirty. For 9mm, and if we're talking range ammo, I like PMC Bronze 124. Seems clean, is as accurate as I am with a pistol and it's reliable in my experience.

    As far as 5.56, the only other brand that I will mention (in addition to what's been posted) is Independence. I've personally never had a bad experience with it. I've got a bunch of Geco Swiss or German stuff that I haven't tested yet, but have heard good things.
     

    mauser58

    My home is a sports store
    Dec 2, 2020
    1,755
    Baltimore County, near the Bay
    I was buying a lot of Prvi Partizan in the Blue and white boxes for hunting ammo. Its good quality ammo and cheaper than other brands. I like that they have the European calibers too and can find most ammo for most rifles and some pistols. I shoot their 7.62x25 in my Toks. Another real good ammo is Sellier and Bellot. I bought a bunch of their 6.8SPC for my one AR15 and accurate. Both manufacturers also make PSP and SP ammo for hunting and not just FMJ.
     

    Duckncover

    Member
    Jan 14, 2021
    77
    howard county
    I will comment on 22LR cause so much will be said on the other stuff.
    I spent about a year looking at 15 different brands/types of 22LR across about 12 different rifles and pistols
    I looked at rounds through a microscope and measured bullets OAL, rim thicknesses and case diameters
    Much of the "reliability" of 22LR comes down to the Rim itself
    Some manufacturers are known for fewer duds/misfires due to quality of how the gap inside the rim is and the distribution of the solution to ignite the powder.
    CCI being well known for the reliability of ignition and Remington being known for unreliability. After shooting many thousands of 22LR over the year, nearly all duds, you reinsert and rotate and it will go off.
    The other thing about the rim is the shape. The rim is flat near the case but then rounds out to a radius closer to the edge of the rim.
    CCI stays flatter further out and remington for example, rounds sooner.
    This affects a marginal extractor. CCI tends to be more reliable because the extractor has more flat area to grab and pull the round out.
    Consistancy of the case diameter also comes into play in tight chambers of semi autos.
    You will find that bulk packaged Lead Nose with wax on the lead bullet contributes some to unreliability with any wax coming off a bullet and building up on a case.
    Individually packaged rounds (Like 50 or 100 round CCI, ELEY etc separates them) keeps that from happening like in bulk packaging

    Most all the 22LR I looked at, the widest part of the bullet reached into the chamber almost the same, one, Remington, sat back some and actually ran MORE reliable in an old German Luger 22LR replica I had (Erma LA22). I later found that the chamber was reamed prior to sAMI specs and that taking a chamber reamer made that gun SOOO Much more reliable It really clued me in on the differences of bullet shapes.

    Back then it was "try all ammo and see what yours likes best" What I found was, this was true with reliability, but accuracy came by buying more expensive 22. Eley Match, Remington Target, CCI SV or even CCI Green Tag were of the best. Cheap American Eagle, Rem golden bullets were the worse. I would take my bolt Marli or Ruger 10/22 and make it noticably more accurate just by spending more $ on ammo.
    That being said, I've seen a guy at my range hitting a 6" plate @ 100 yards off hand 75% of the time with a single shot 22 using Remington Golden bullets from the bulk bucket. I bet he'd get more hits with CCI SV or Eley Match though.

    Cheaper guns tended to be more ammo sensitive (Beretta Neos, Mossberg Plinkster) Better guns (Browning Buckmark, Ruger 10/22) tended to be less ammo sensitive for reliability. There are always outliers for each brand of course.

    I reload pretty much everything however one day shooting Factory 223, Remington UMC was not so accurate (I was of course comparing to my reloads which may not be fair).
    I had REALLY good luck with both my first AR and my Dad's AR shooting the red box GECO 223 that came on plastic stripper clips. 1MOA @ 100 yards with his Bushmaster AR (yea, back in 2012, you could get a Bushmaster AR HBAR cash and carry)


    Want some good accurate factory ammo for shooting from the bench? Federal Gold Metal Match 223 and 308 are what i shot out of my most accurate AR and 308 Bolt rifle then measured groups and targeted my reloads to Meet or exceed the accuracy of that ammo.

    dang bro, a simple “this good, that bad” would have sufficed.
    KIDDING!!!!

    I appreciate the informative response. I never thought of nor examined 22 in nearly as much detail. My buckmark is hit or miss with reliability and Im going to pay more attention to what I put in it. My S&W 15-22 eats it all pretty well so far and I dont think my CZ conversion kit is broken in enough to tell. I have most of the brands you mentioned and will definitely be adding pages to the range book.
     

    jamesp15

    Active Member
    Jul 16, 2018
    420
    Southern PG
    When I practiced for an Appleseed I took 7-8 brands/types of ammo. Federal Automatch was the same accuracy as some expensive target brand (which I now forget). Also Eley tended to lead to failures to extract.

    Remington wasn't accurate, but was dirty as absolute hell. Since that time I only shoot automatch out of the 10/22.

    22's are so finicky.. none of my 10/22's will shoot Federal Automatch or Champions reliably, they eat almost anything else all day but for some reason they hate the Federal stuff.
     

    bronco

    Member
    Dec 14, 2020
    62
    se Va
    I steer away from using steel case or tracer in my bigger firearms, period.
    As far as 22LR is concerned, I go by a good/better/best scale and try to get at least mid-grade (better) based on reviews. Any of the various CCI that I have tried has been top quality, whether it was an in-store or online purchase. When doing walk-in purchase, more often than not what I get is based on what's on the shelf and if I recognize the brand/features.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Federal works fine in my 10/22 BUT it doesn't like Thunderbolt. Go figure.
    That's because Thunderbolts are garbage. I remember in the last ammo panic, Thunderbolts were probably the most available ammo, and I declined to buy it numerous times because I'd rather not shoot than try to deal with it.

    I'm always reluctant to name good and bad ammo makers. Sometimes they improve or get worse, or maybe they have better/worse individual lots. I got into bulk reloading on fancy progressive presses because I didn't want to put up with that anymore.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    .22 is firearm by firearm. What works best in one may not work as well in another.

    That said, CCI is pretty good stuff in most firearms for functioning. But others may give better accuracy.

    For centerfire, Federal, CCI, Speer, Winchester, Remington, IMI, PPU, Wolf Gold, Hornady, Black Hills, Corbon, Lake City (US military plant) are all good.
     

    md_rick_o

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Sep 30, 2008
    5,112
    Severn Md.
    Funny how when i was growing up and shooting our older Remington Sportmaster, Targetmaster and a High Standard Double Nine we used remington mostly. They were good back then, definitely accurate. When i got my newer .22's as an adult they are not very good.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Funny how when i was growing up and shooting our older Remington Sportmaster, Targetmaster and a High Standard Double Nine we used remington mostly. They were good back then, definitely accurate. When i got my newer .22's as an adult they are not very good.

    Yeah, Remington Golden Bullets (back in the days of the square plastic box) was on par with CCI MiniMags.

    Not sure what happened to Remington rimfire ammo to go so downhill.

    Maybe the new owners will fix the issues.

    Back in the 90s, Federal American Eagle was pretty bad. A lot of failures to fire, but eject and reload with a different part of the rim under the firing pin, they would fire. So it seemed to be a primer compound distribution issue. Problem was, one pistol I have shoots most accurately with the stuff.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    dang bro, a simple “this good, that bad” would have sufficed.
    KIDDING!!!!

    I appreciate the informative response. I never thought of nor examined 22 in nearly as much detail. My buckmark is hit or miss with reliability and Im going to pay more attention to what I put in it. My S&W 15-22 eats it all pretty well so far and I dont think my CZ conversion kit is broken in enough to tell. I have most of the brands you mentioned and will definitely be adding pages to the range book.

    CCI and Eley in rimfire. Runs the best and most accurate of any brand in any of the rimfire guns I’ve tried. Also most reliable.
     

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