2021 Machine Gun Registration

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  • Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Just got a notice that the 2021 MG registration will once again be done through the MSP licensing portal. It will open on March 1st. Payments will be made electronically through credit card. Paper forms will be returned if submitted. Stand by... here we go again.
     

    rsideout

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 11, 2009
    6,707
    MD - Capital Region
    That is for initial registrations also. It says that they will send back any paper copies that are sent to them. The last couple of times that I tried to use the system for initial registrations it was down.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Yep... they have been trying to get the portal to work correctly for two years now... not sure what is so hard about it. Not a particular complex application... maybe if they didn't select the low bidder for every development project, something might work from time to time.
     

    gun_nut

    Member
    Dec 9, 2018
    38
    Yep... they have trying to get the portal to work correctly for two years now... not sure what is so hard about it. Not a particular complex application... maybe if they didn't select the low bidder for every development project, something might work from time to time.

    More like if they didn't give the bid to their cronies.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    That is for initial registrations also. It says that they will send back any paper copies that are sent to them. The last couple of times that I tried to use the system for initial registrations it was down.

    I would love to see this go to court and have MSP argue that they sent the registration back because it was not done on line. I see no where in the law giving MSP the ability to deny paper applications and require use of a credit/debit card.

    Not to mention I want to send MSP a bill for all the time it takes to keep switching between systems. It takes a good while to fill out all the crap they ask for and to have it recorded on paper and on the computer take forever. If I was one of these guys with a few 100 MGs, I would be pissed.
     

    N3uka

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 26, 2013
    3,119
    College Park
    I wonder if the credit card companies will refuse to process if they learn the reason for payments. Nothing would surprise me at this point.
     

    bbrown

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 10, 2009
    3,032
    MD
    So, a few questions:

    (1) Do we know if the new electronic system will be initially populated with the contents of our most recent paper forms?

    (2) Will the electronic system retain this year's information for use next year? The previous electronic system did so, and was pretty convenient.

    I suspect we won't really know until it goes online and we have some experience with it.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    So, a few questions:

    (1) Do we know if the new electronic system will be initially populated with the contents of our most recent paper forms?

    (2) Will the electronic system retain this year's information for use next year? The previous electronic system did so, and was pretty convenient.

    I suspect we won't really know until it goes online and we have some experience with it.

    I don't think anyone knows for sure yet... I'm sure that we will get solid feedback from folks once the system opens up.
     

    rsideout

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 11, 2009
    6,707
    MD - Capital Region
    I would love to see this go to court and have MSP argue that they sent the registration back because it was not done on line. I see no where in the law giving MSP the ability to deny paper applications and require use of a credit/debit card.

    Not to mention I want to send MSP a bill for all the time it takes to keep switching between systems. It takes a good while to fill out all the crap they ask for and to have it recorded on paper and on the computer take forever. If I was one of these guys with a few 100 MGs, I would be pissed.

    I keep the filled out PDFs from earlier annual submissions and just print them out. It's normally about 5 or 6 pages with a couple of changes for new purchases or sales. Has been working well, but we'll see how it goes now that it will all be online again.
     

    viiper

    Re-Member
    Dec 3, 2008
    110
    Carroll County
    Nothing like a system that says you are guilty automatically and guilty again each year until the crown determines you are innocent:
    https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizat...censingDivision/Registration/MachineGuns.aspx
    "Possession or use of a machine gun is presumed to be for an offensive or aggressive purpose when the machine gun is not registered as required under § 4-403, Criminal Law Article. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years."

    That's just nuts, and no way Constitutional to presume guilt an an annual basis. Not to mention sounds a bit like "pre-crime" creepiness.

    BTW, I just noticed the site says the licensing expirations were extended during state of emergency.... when was the State's state of emergency lifted, or is it still in place?
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    Nothing like a system that says you are guilty automatically and guilty again each year until the crown determines you are innocent:...

    While I totally agree...

    I believe this law is near 100% unenforceable if you are smart. How often to USPS lose a letter? I think saying its not uncommon would be accepted by all. So as long as you don't tell the police you did not send it, your lawyer is going to ask the court to prove you did not go get a MO with cash and mail it in? Pretty hard to prove that did not happen and it got lost in the mail. Its pretty hard for those of us who actually do it every year to know it actually made it there. So for $10 I will continue to do it... but this is not the end of the world either.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    Nothing like a system that says you are guilty automatically and guilty again each year until the crown determines you are innocent:
    https://mdsp.maryland.gov/Organizat...censingDivision/Registration/MachineGuns.aspx
    "Possession or use of a machine gun is presumed to be for an offensive or aggressive purpose when the machine gun is not registered as required under § 4-403, Criminal Law Article. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years."

    That's just nuts, and no way Constitutional to presume guilt an an annual basis. Not to mention sounds a bit like "pre-crime" creepiness.

    BTW, I just noticed the site says the licensing expirations were extended during state of emergency.... when was the State's state of emergency lifted, or is it still in place?

    The law is even worse than that... it assumes guilt for anyone in the presence of an unregistered MG. Got an unregistered Tommy that Grandpa passed down... throw a party in your house with 50 of your closest friends who didn't even know you were a gun owner... boom, everyone there is guilty of possession of an unregistered machine gun. I'm really surprised that it has never been challenged in court, but my guess is because there have been so few cases of unregistered MG possession prosecuted in MD.
     

    IMBLITZVT

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 20, 2009
    3,799
    Catonsville, MD
    The law is even worse than that... it assumes guilt for anyone in the presence of an unregistered MG. Got an unregistered Tommy that Grandpa passed down... throw a party in your house with 50 of your closest friends who didn't even know you were a gun owner... boom, everyone there is guilty of possession of an unregistered machine gun. I'm really surprised that it has never been challenged in court, but my guess is because there have been so few cases of unregistered MG possession prosecuted in MD.

    I don't see any evidence of what you are saying there to be true.

    To my knowledge, that is not accurate in any way. The gun would be part of the Grandpa's estate. If you accepted it, then its in your possession and it is illegal and you can be charged. A 3rd party being there would not make them guilty in anyway. Lets not over do it... Its never been challenged in court because its never been charged because its not the law...

    Never a more timely YT Video:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOg0ZJ7MyRU
     
    Last edited:

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    § 4-402. Possession of machine gun.


    (a) Evidence of possession.- The presence of a machine gun in a room, boat, or vehicle is evidence of the possession or use of the machine gun by each person occupying the room, boat, or vehicle.

    So, in my scenario, if you are in a room with an unregistered machine gun (i.e. invited to a party and didn't know it was there) you are in possession and presumed guilty of offesensive intent, punishable by 10 years in prison.
     

    rsideout

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 11, 2009
    6,707
    MD - Capital Region
    § 4-402. Possession of machine gun.


    (a) Evidence of possession.- The presence of a machine gun in a room, boat, or vehicle is evidence of the possession or use of the machine gun by each person occupying the room, boat, or vehicle.

    So, in my scenario, if you are in a room with an unregistered machine gun (i.e. invited to a party and didn't know it was there) you are in possession and presumed guilty of offesensive intent, punishable by 10 years in prison.

    T, I don't see that ever happening. Even in MD.
     

    viiper

    Re-Member
    Dec 3, 2008
    110
    Carroll County
    While I totally agree...

    I believe this law is near 100% unenforceable if you are smart. How often to USPS lose a letter? I think saying its not uncommon would be accepted by all. So as long as you don't tell the police you did not send it, your lawyer is going to ask the court to prove you did not go get a MO with cash and mail it in? Pretty hard to prove that did not happen and it got lost in the mail. Its pretty hard for those of us who actually do it every year to know it actually made it there. So for $10 I will continue to do it... but this is not the end of the world either.

    Yep, its not the $10 for me. It's the complete backwards concept being contrary of a free country with concepts like "innocent until proven guilty", just the principle of the matter when I was reading this again struck me to highlight it. Just another item, perhaps small by itself, the death by 1,000 cuts.
     

    Bob A

    όυ φροντισ
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Nov 11, 2009
    30,687
    So let me see if I have this right:
    If you don't fill out an e-form and send them an E-payment every year, you're a felon in possession of a machine gun.
    Their e-portal doesn't work.

    Does that smell funny to you? Sort of like a trap? Certainly no one in law enforcement would ever try to entrap an otherwise innocent person. It can't happen here!
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    So let me see if I have this right:
    If you don't fill out an e-form and send them an E-payment every year, you're a felon in possession of a machine gun.
    Their e-portal doesn't work.

    Does that smell funny to you? Sort of like a trap? Certainly no one in law enforcement would ever try to entrap an otherwise innocent person. It can't happen here!

    Right. Maryland fully supports the shooting sports. They blame the criminal, not recreational shooter. :rolleyes:
     

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