Could this be considered straw purchase?

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  • teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    IANAL. I'm going against the grain and say anything illegal the buyer would be doing is between them and the FFL. There's no "paperwork", only
    a shipping label being created between the seller and the FFL. Whomever picks up the firearm and fills out the paperwork and background checks
    would be answering the questions.

    I could see situations where someone buys a firearm because their friend/family doesn't have a gunbroker account, and has it shipped to an FFL
    in the name of the friend/family. I don't believe any laws would be broken?

    But it's your ultimate right to walk away from any buyer you feel doesn't give a legit good feeling.

    again, IANAL

    SO, if you suspect that someone is buying a firearm from you for a likely prohibited person you feel no responsibility at all to shut it down? Let the FFL deal with it? :sad20:
     

    Boats

    Beer, Bikes n Boomsticks
    Mar 13, 2012
    4,073
    Howeird County
    The OP should just ignore the email from the purchaser. Once he has been paid, shipped to the FFL and it is in their hands, the transaction has been completed. The FFL can do whatever he feels is legal and comfortable.

    Agree. The FFL is the one on the hook, it is their license. As long as you can show that you shipped to a bona-fide FFL, then you should be good. It is their job to conduct the background check, not yours. Plus you are not transferring the weapon to the buyer, you are transferring the weapon to an FFL, perfectly legal.
     

    Boats

    Beer, Bikes n Boomsticks
    Mar 13, 2012
    4,073
    Howeird County
    SO, if you suspect that someone is buying a firearm from you for a likely prohibited person you feel no responsibility at all to shut it down? Let the FFL deal with it? :sad20:

    Basically, yes. I am not an investigator, I dont have access to NICS and people get denied/delayed for lots of legit and stupid reasons. Imma stay in my lane and let the professionals handle it. FFLs license, their problem, and whether they perform the transfer is between them and the ATF.

    Face to face transfer (were that still legal in this backwards-ass state)..... different story.
     

    dist1646

    Ultimate Member
    May 1, 2012
    8,758
    Eldersburg
    Nope! Would not want to be an accessory to that! Could be a sting operation too. I would not only walk away from the deal, the "buyer" would get reported to GB.
     

    85MikeTPI

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 19, 2014
    2,699
    Ceciltucky
    Basically, yes. I am not an investigator, I dont have access to NICS and people get denied/delayed for lots of legit and stupid reasons. Imma stay in my lane and let the professionals handle it. FFLs license, their problem, and whether they perform the transfer is between them and the ATF.

    Face to face transfer (were that still legal in this backwards-ass state)..... different story.

    ^^^ This ^^^. BGOS is contagious.
     
    Jun 17, 2014
    64
    Hey all,

    I just sold a handgun on gunbroker. This is my first time using the platform.

    The buyer emailed me that there might be a delay with his background check, and that if so, asked if I could change the name of the recipient to his wife, and she would under go the background check.

    So, the question is, would I be potentially aiding in a straw purchase or other legal issues OR, would it be ok since I am shipping it to his FFL, and that’s is their responsibility, I’m just the “supplier” I get the feeling I could be liable here

    Thoughts?

    MD FFL here...
    We don't care who is paying for a firearm. We do care whether or not the person filling out the paperwork is the actual buyer of the firearm. If this happened in our shop they would be turned away.
    Others have correctly stated the FFL is who is responsible for determining who the actual buyer is. You are accepting payment and shipping to an FFL, which is perfectly legal. If you don't feel comfortable, back out. Erring on the side of caution isn't a bad thing.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Basically, yes. I am not an investigator, I dont have access to NICS and people get denied/delayed for lots of legit and stupid reasons. Imma stay in my lane and let the professionals handle it. FFLs license, their problem, and whether they perform the transfer is between them and the ATF.

    Face to face transfer (were that still legal in this backwards-ass state)..... different story.

    We can all do our part. I don’t want someone killing somebody’s kids with a gun I sold regardless of where the legal responsibilities lie. That’s just me. I’m floored by this perspective, though.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,158
    SO, if you suspect that someone is buying a firearm from you for a likely prohibited person you feel no responsibility at all to shut it down? Let the FFL deal with it? :sad20:

    Maybe the buyer is just a little prohibited...



    I think selling a gun is a bigger responsibility than owning a gun regardless of the letter of the law.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Would it be illegal for the OP ? No

    Would it be
    Wise & Prudent for the OP ? Probably not .


    Is there such a thing as " Slightly Prohibited " ? Arguably Yes . Maryland added a laundry list of new disqualifying factors in 2013 , some of them highly bogus . So there's plenty of people who would be Non Prohibited in the rest of the country , but prohibited Only in Maryland .
     

    Nickberg500

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 20, 2019
    1,064
    North of Baltimore County
    Basically, yes. I am not an investigator, I dont have access to NICS and people get denied/delayed for lots of legit and stupid reasons. Imma stay in my lane and let the professionals handle it. FFLs license, their problem, and whether they perform the transfer is between them and the ATF.

    Face to face transfer (were that still legal in this backwards-ass state)..... different story.
    ^^^ This ^^^. BGOS is contagious.
    I'm leaning towards you guys, sounds like an FFL problem.
     

    holesonpaper

    Active Member
    Mar 10, 2017
    913
    Hazzard county
    So I'll be the outlier here but I don't think there's enough information to definitively know for certain that this is a straw purchase. It's shady and I'd probably walk from the sale (there's other buyers out there and nobody wants any trouble) - but is it a straw purchase? The buyer says "delay with his background check" and therefore to use the wife's name. I wouldn't sign up for that, especially if funds came from him as it opens the door however my understanding per reading the ATF literature, is that it's the actual act of falsifying the intended purchasers information during the FFL transfer to complete the transfer, not before, that actually classifies the purchase as a straw purchase. So could it be a straw purchase if the transaction goes through - sure, it might be, but just from the simple write up, its uncertain. It shouldn't be on you to give two shits about the "delay in his background check". That's his problem. If he bought or the account which purchased on GB is in his name, then I'd ship to whatever FFL in his name. Don't give the ATF or anyone else anything to question you about. There's probably some guidance on GB or elsewhere for how to deal with these things.

    Too many times on this site I've seen where step-daddy buys a rifle for his step-son, or wife buys for fathers day (hint hint), or something like that and someone on this site calls it a "straw purchase". I'm not saying that happened in this thread - but it's happened. Ultimately, the person who is going to own the firearm should be the one passing the background check - end of story.

    If you gut says there's something wrong with this sale (as I suspect it does), then just say no thanks and move on.
     

    fred55

    Senior
    Aug 24, 2016
    1,772
    Spotsylvania Co. VA
    I'd be concerned for a few reasons. Even if it's above board to ship to the FFL, what if neither the husband or wife passes the BC? The FFL is holding your firearm with no buyer. You'll probably have to have it returned to you. Like others have said I'd terminate the sale and look for a buyer that is not concerned about their BC. fred55
     

    sxs

    Senior Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 20, 2009
    3,378
    Anne Arundel County, MD
    So, I don't get why the buyer had to specifically get the seller involved at all. We have lots of customers (in store) who purchase gift cards or even directly pay for a firearm for a kid, wife, parent, etc. When the firearm reached the FFL, he could have just told them it was bought for his wife and had her show up to do the paperwork. That said, the story sounds fishy as crap. IF I did this transaction, (notice the big if), I would just ship the thing to said buyer. If he gets delayed and he is legal, he will have to wait up to 5 business days. Lot'sa people get delayed these days (basically everyone who previously had further review). ( Handguns arent very noticable in that regard due to Maryland's 7 day wait. ) That's not that big of a deal.
     

    deerhtr

    Active Member
    Nov 22, 2011
    231
    eastern shore
    Dude run away now and dont let him change your mind. i backed out of a facebook market place on my trailer axles im selling cause the guys phone number was skechty. it isnt worth any trouble that might come your way
     

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