Let's Discuss Burner Phones

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  • Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,359
    SoMD / West PA
    I do keep a paper list of important phone numbers in my emergency bag. However, I’ve been thinking about this problem and I think it makes sense to actually memorize some of the important numbers and actually make some calls using the keypad instead of just clicking on the name in my contact list.

    A 3x5 card of the really important numbers stays in my wallet, in case I need to go old skool.

    Phones do break at the most inopportune time.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    And a lot of countries required one's passport or national ID card to buy a SIM card.

    In one country an enterprising store had the "normal" SIM cards that required registration with an ID. They also had "preregistered" cards offsite but close by in the names of deceased folk.

    Which ones require your passport or ID card?

    Wondering, I have not bought sim cards in that many countries (none since switching to T-Mobile) but had never run into that.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Thanks, and yes non burner.

    Not to stray too far from the topic, it is cheaper for us to have 4 phones on AT$T’s plan than our 3 , so we’ll have one sitting in a drawer to save money. He’ll have to live with that terrible interweb button.

    When I switched to the T-Mobile Veterans plan, it was 2 lines for $100 (unlimited talk, text and data), additional lines are $10 per month.

    So I got my Dad off his TracPhone, which every so often he ended up with a new phone number, and just put him on my plan. Just easier. And he keeps the same number.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    There is no such thing as a burner phone, the phone is still traceable by its number, GPS via satellite not just cell towers.

    GPS only works that way on TV and movies.

    GPS satellites are transmit only for GPS use. And the ground units are called GPS RECEIVERS for a reason.

    Only when you couple a GPS receiver with a cellular or radio device to transmit that data does it work that way.

    Which is what your phone does. Or OnStar and similar systems.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    The current and future GPS constellation has no way to receive signals from cellphones at the power they put out, nor on the frequencies they transmit on, either now or in the future.

    I work in this realm, and have off and on over the past 30+ years and have yet to have any info on satellites being able to do so directly.

    :tinfoil:

    :lol:
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Why do they need fake cell towers. Most all cell calls do through a microwave link.

    MUCH easier to tap that than spoof a cell tower in a manner where it still works so people can make calls.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Why do they need fake cell towers. Most all cell calls do through a microwave link.

    MUCH easier to tap that than spoof a cell tower in a manner where it still works so people can make calls.

    Not really, most calls are backhauled from a tower back to a central switch via fiber, in MD suburbs of DC, that central switch is somewhere north of Langley Park, MD.

    Once the call hits the tower it becomes IP data, and is a lot harder to find the call you want as opposed to using a "fake tower" to capture the exact calls you want. Hacking the copper or fiber backhaul is a lot easier than trying to capture a microwave signal, especially without degrading the signal.
     

    Growler215

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 30, 2020
    2,156
    SOMD
    The first rule about burner phones is...you don't talk about burner phones.

    Only half kidding. Democrats have proposed outlawing them before. If Shumer, Pelosi, et. al hear they are being discussed on a gun board, it could put a bee in their bonnet. They already assume everyone with an interest in firearms is part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

    They rightly fear those they wish to enslave.

    Probably why Schumer also wants to outlaw body armor.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    The first rule about burner phones is...you don't talk about burner phones.

    The focus and sole internet of my post is to understand what legal means are available to conduct communication activities in private, and to understand the limitations of those communication methods. I think this is a topic that absolutely should be discussed just as we discuss our legal rights to possess firearms.

    Democrats have proposed outlawing them before. If Shumer, Pelosi, et. al hear they are being discussed on a gun board, it could put a bee in their bonnet.

    In 2010 a bill was introduced by Chucky but co sponsored by republican John Cornyn too.

    Different dems proposed legislation in 3016. Referring to H.R.4886 - Closing the Pre-Paid Mobile Device Security Gap Act of 2016 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/4886

    Don’t forget however that the Trump administration tried to ban private encrypted messaging in 2019.

    They already assume everyone with an interest in firearms is part of the vast right wing conspiracy.

    Much of the discussion online that I have found on this topic seems to originate from people who have participated in or were discussing participation in BLM/Antifa protest last year. I suspect that the professional $hit starters are already well coached on how reduce their risk of being arrested for criminal conspiracy activities.

    Then as the movement grew and the underlying fear of the government and police became more mainstream amongst more suburban left leaning people, reddit subs saw a lot of discussion on the topic. I think two of the links in my initial post probably were inspired in this way.


    Maybe Democrats won’t be so emboldened now to restrict pre-paid phone cards now that they see they are embraced by their constituents after BLM riots. Maybe republicans will not try to restrict encrypted messaging now that they feel their constituents are becoming more knowledgeable of the technology and after seeing a lot of innocent people being swept up in the capitol investigations stemming from the Jan 6th riot.
     

    ironpony

    Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 8, 2013
    7,190
    Davidsonville
    Apple possibly adding satellite capabilities to iPhone. Bloomberg
    Interesting, maybe?


    "That’s led to conjecture that the iPhone will become something akin to a satellite phone, freeing users from having to rely on cell networks. But Apple’s plan is initially more limited in scope, according to the person, with the focus on helping customers handle crisis scenarios."
    "The texting-via-satellite tool, codenamed Stewie inside Apple, will restrict messages to a shorter length. The texts will automatically push through to an emergency contact’s phone, even if the do-not-disturb setting is on. One planned design will let a user send the message by typing “Emergency SOS” where they would usually input a contact name. In addition to delivering texts, the service may eventually be able to handle some phone calls too. "


    "Such an option will be useful in areas such as mountains or remote lakes, where 4G or 5G coverage may be unavailable."
    "Globalstar gained 64% to $2.35 before the close on Monday."


    "Both features are, of course, dependent on satellite availability and local regulations. They’re not designed to work in every country, and Apple has created a mechanism that will ask users to be outdoors and walk in a certain direction to help the iPhone connect to a satellite."
    "When reaching emergency services, the feature can send a user’s location and Medical ID, a virtual card in the Health app with a list of a user’s medical history, age, medications, and information like height and weight. It can also a notify a user’s emergency contacts, typically a person’s family, friends, doctors.", psychiatrist, local gun store, forum members, local police, ATF, IRS and send a message to users home to trigger safety protocol devices previously installed.
     
    Last edited:

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    I found an Alcatel MyFlip2 for $19 at WM

    It covers all of the basics and more. The only thing I cannot determine is if it has GPS and if so can it be turned off. Looks like the battery has 2 weeks standby capacity. I’m guessing that it should hold a decent charge for at least 30 days if not 60+. Uses a standard usb charger so I can easily power it through my car or with a backup usb battery.

    Picked up a plan with data and minutes for $30 so all in $50 for now.

    I’ll set it up with a sim card from a discreet location sometime in the future.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    This article is very related to this discussion.

    HOW POLICE LAID DOWN A GEOFENCE DRAGNET FOR KENOSHA PROTESTORS
    ATF investigators used a controversial technique to investigate arson incidents connected to the 2020 police protests

    https://www.theverge.com/22644965/k...-warrants-atf-android-data-police-jacob-blake

    While many devices collect location data, Google has become a particular target for geofence warrants because of its data retention practices. iOS stores location data in an anonymized and ephemeral way that makes it less accessible to court orders. Google has been reluctant to adopt such a system for Android, in part because of the data’s value for targeted advertising.
     

    Inigoes

    Head'n for the hills
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 21, 2008
    49,359
    SoMD / West PA
    That is why you do not carry a phone.

    Purchase the phone, use it for what you need, and then toss it.

    Hanging onto it only compromises you at a future date.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    That is why you do not carry a phone.

    Purchase the phone, use it for what you need, and then toss it.

    Hanging onto it only compromises you at a future date.


    When I attend the next Pussyhat march I’m planning to mind my own business wearing my favorite handcrafted vjayjay head covering. However, you never when things can get ugly.



    I think what is important about the article I linked is the level of detail that Google is providing when they comply with these warrants. A basic phone without an OS developed specifically to track and use your precise location would mean that your location would only be as accurate as recorded by cell phone tower logs.

    While that information is sometimes subpoenaed and used to place individuals in (or not in) a general area, it is not really able to be used to prove “You were standing in front of the Autozone at 1200 East Main St at 9:34pm”.

    By default Google Android OS is built to continually log this location information and is stores in a way that agencies can very easily access with a court order. Imagine a scenario where you were actually following the crowd and some individuals decided to start a fire. You say “Ok I don’t want to be involved in this” and you start walking the other way. You pass another building just as someone throws a brick through the window and the alarm goes off. You keep walking and pass more mayhem developing around you. 8 months later this wide geofencing data is used by investigators. They realize that a lot of people probably DID NOT start fires so they want to narrow down the investigation. They begin to correlate geolocation data with alarm and 911 calls by time index. Now while examining data provided by Google, your attempt to leave the scene of a riot looks like the a purposeful path of destruction.

    Would it hold up in court? Probably not, without additional video evidence. Or perhaps worse, eye witness testimony, because it’s less reliable, but emotionally persuasive. You still might get arrested and detained and need to spend money to defend yourself. This is the risk you take when you willingly let Google track and sell your location and behaviors patterns.

    The stakes are really getting higher and I think it’s good that even less informed people are starting to wake up.
     

    ToolAA

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 17, 2016
    10,499
    God's Country
    Just a quick update. I’ve had the Alcatel MyFlip2 as the backup phone in my car’s emergency bag since 9/5 (Post #115 above). I keep the phone powered off with the battery in. I have the device set to be in Airplane Mode, with Bluetooth, Wifi and GPS off, when powered On.

    I keep the sim card taped to the inside of the rear plastic cover, not inserted into the phone. Then it’s stored in a little ziploc bag.

    This morning I was checking out my emergency stuff in the car which I try to do every 3 months. Just checking batteries of flashlights and whatnot. The battery after 16 weeks of storage, connected to the phone, is reading 95% charge. So it looks like my plan of keeping this as a viable backup communication device in my car had been a good choice.
     

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