6.5 Grendel Subsonics-Clue Me In?

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  • babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,017
    Glenelg
    Yeah was late and forgot.

    I feel like you meant to insert a link? I'm not going to deny that MDS has problems, but I think a reasonable argument about real-world usage of certain ideas has merit.


    I think there's a use case for something like that with a bolt gun - I run both a AR-6.5G and a Ruger American in 6.5G, so subsonic 6.5G is a topic of interest to me. Problem is, your zero's gonna be way, way off compared to full-fat 6.5G. That's kind of the problem - it's a theoretically interesting idea that seems to fail when confronted with any kind of real world use, or such was my own discovery.


    Sort of slipped my mind but meez gotz part of what was said
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    The question is, what are you trying to accomplish?

    Subsonic .300 BO gives you the choice of some heavy bullets, with a simple barrel change. Or swapping uppers.

    With subsonic, the name of the game is bullet weight, as you are velocity limited.

    Pistol caliber carbines make sense, but require more than just an upper swap. And if you are limited to 140 grain range (6.5), 9mm makes as much sense, as you can get similar velocity with a similar bullet weight, but with a bullet designed for expansion at pistol velocities.

    One other factor is, a .30 cal can works fine with .300 BO or 6.5 or even .223. Going pistol caliber may mean another can. Not that that is a bad thing. :D
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,017
    Glenelg
    Yup

    Growing pains my man, growing pains. You are seeing what some of us saw with the explosion of the 13'ers. What used to be a peaceful forum was forever altered, by the events of that year. I'm not saying all the 13'ers were bad, but some of them soured the milk for the rest of the legit 13'ers that stuck around to try to become accepted members of the community.

    Realistically post count doesn't matter all that much if you are knowledgeable and are willing to freely share that knowledge. I know some that have very low post counts that are assets in sharing the wealth of knowledge they have, the same as those with high post counts. I also know that the exact opposite is true also with high count and low count, both are equally ready to lay into somebody. All in all at the end of the day, we are a dysfunctional family.


    Can I say I am a 13’er who identifies as a 12’er? :)
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,017
    Glenelg
    Bear

    This was what I was looking for, along with any more 'contemporary' applications. It was merely a thought that popped into my head while I contemplated building a 6.5G. A close friend asked if I would build one for him and at that point, I though, "why not build two?"

    I realize, we are fighting physics here, but hey, I'm no scientist, nor do I consider myself an expert reloader. I know what I know and you can fill volumes with what I don't know.

    Thanks for your patience and replies! :)

    ETA: Don't piss babalou off. He's a bear! :D

    Meow
     

    babalou

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 12, 2013
    16,017
    Glenelg
    Yeah I know

    Growing pains my man, growing pains. You are seeing what some of us saw with the explosion of the 13'ers. What used to be a peaceful forum was forever altered, by the events of that year. I'm not saying all the 13'ers were bad, but some of them soured the milk for the rest of the legit 13'ers that stuck around to try to become accepted members of the community.

    Realistically post count doesn't matter all that much if you are knowledgeable and are willing to freely share that knowledge. I know some that have very low post counts that are assets in sharing the wealth of knowledge they have, the same as those with high post counts. I also know that the exact opposite is true also with high count and low count, both are equally ready to lay into somebody. All in all at the end of the day, we are a dysfunctional family.


    Here is a text I wrote earlier to someone about all of us lately. I may have disagreements at times but not to the levels around here lately. Some good friends have backed off some because of it.

    ...I hear you. The left sees this to their advantage. See, we prize freedom and individualism which a lot of times fractures us when a cause is at hand and we need all hands on deck. We tend to take our toys and go home. No biggie that is for what freedom stands. Now with libtards they circle wagons in the ends justifies the means hive mentality. There you have it...
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Can I say I am a 13’er who identifies as a 12’er? :)
    sqtYh99.gif
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    Here is a text I wrote earlier to someone about all of us lately. I may have disagreements at times but not to the levels around here lately. Some good friends have backed off some because of it.



    ...I hear you. The left sees this to their advantage. See, we prize freedom and individualism which a lot of times fractures us when a cause is at hand and we need all hands on deck. We tend to take our toys and go home. No biggie that is for what freedom stands. Now with libtards they circle wagons in the ends justifies the means hive mentality. There you have it...
    Me thinks that you, the clown, and I, should link up somewhere for a head shed. Get it all figured out.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Can we get back to reloading?

    This love fest is making me nauseous.

    To answer pinecone's question, I'm not really sure what I was after. Call it boredom meets curiosity.

    I'm fully aware of the limitations of subsonic velocities, yet people shoot .22 and .223 subs. To paraphrase George Mallory- ...because it's there...(?)

    On another note, I picked up a few Lehigh Defence 194gr Maximum Expansion .30 subs. If they shoot well enough, I may try them out on something other than paper.


    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     

    Bart_man

    Clinging to gun&religion
    Jan 8, 2011
    2,310
    Hazzard County
    My man!

    I agree about subs for plinking and competition, but a 300BLK sub for HD with a can is a smart choice for those that don't want a PC dedicated lower.

    The supporters for hunting, I'll agree with, but you have the advantage of better accuracy than a 762x39.


    This post seems to assert that the round itself is inherently less accurate.



    I'd go along with this if the assertion was that the stamped and folded receiver commie guns that 7.62x39 was designed for are less accurate, but the round itself...naahhhh.



    I think this link to another forum is what outrider was looking for>>>>
    http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22387
     

    Speed3

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 19, 2011
    7,816
    MD
    Can we get back to reloading?

    This love fest is making me nauseous.

    To answer pinecone's question, I'm not really sure what I was after. Call it boredom meets curiosity.

    I'm fully aware of the limitations of subsonic velocities, yet people shoot .22 and .223 subs. To paraphrase George Mallory- ...because it's there...(?)

    On another note, I picked up a few Lehigh Defence 194gr Maximum Expansion .30 subs. If they shoot well enough, I may try them out on something other than paper.


    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    Mine shoot well enough for minute of deer, 1.5" or so at 50 yards.

    I haven't had the pleasure to shoot anyhting outside of paper with mine, but others rave about them.

    Did you buy the bullets or finished rounds?
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,815
    Mine shoot well enough for minute of deer, 1.5" or so at 50 yards.

    I haven't had the pleasure to shoot anyhting outside of paper with mine, but others rave about them.

    Did you buy the bullets or finished rounds?
    Just the bullets. They also provide loading options with three different powders.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     

    DaemonAssassin

    Why should we Free BSD?
    Jun 14, 2012
    23,970
    Political refugee in WV
    This post seems to assert that the round itself is inherently less accurate.



    I'd go along with this if the assertion was that the stamped and folded receiver commie guns that 7.62x39 was designed for are less accurate, but the round itself...naahhhh.



    I think this link to another forum is what outrider was looking for>>>>
    http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22387
    762x39 steel case is less accurate than 300BLK.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Can we get back to reloading?

    This love fest is making me nauseous.

    To answer pinecone's question, I'm not really sure what I was after. Call it boredom meets curiosity.

    I'm fully aware of the limitations of subsonic velocities, yet people shoot .22 and .223 subs. To paraphrase George Mallory- ...because it's there...(?)

    On another note, I picked up a few Lehigh Defence 194gr Maximum Expansion .30 subs. If they shoot well enough, I may try them out on something other than paper.

    :lol2::lol2::lol2:

    .223 subs make NO sense to me. Other than to do it.

    .22 subs are standard velocity, so a common round. And Aguila has the 60 grain .22 subs, which gets the energy up to about the same as regular high velocity (120 versus 140 muzzle energy). So an interesting round.

    I like CCI Quiets in my bolt rifle, suppressed, as it is just hoots and giggles. As all you hear is the striker falling and the bullet hitting.

    If you just want to load some 6.5 subs to do it, do it. But the nice things about subs is you can use a short barrel, and get the OAL down. If you make your 6.5 upper for long range, then you will have a long barrel for the higher velocity. So now you have a long rifle with slow ammo. :)
     

    Jmorrismetal

    Active Member
    Sep 27, 2014
    468
    If you shoot suppressed a couple feet per second makes all the difference in the world. Point being that a bullet designed for much higher speeds like most say 220 grain .308 bullets ran subsonic isn’t going to do anything a much cheaper 230gn 45 ACP bullet of similar design at usable ranges. 539-560 ft-lb of energy for either. Where you can double that energy at the same speed with heavy bullets like 405-500 gn from a 450 getting you 990-1200ft/lbs poking along at the same speed.

    Usable range being the key to the conversation. Create a ballistic chart pitting a 6.5cm against a 458 socom and the socom looses at 3000 yards but you wouldn’t use either beyond quite short ranges anyway.
     

    Pinecone

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 4, 2013
    28,175
    Usable range being the key to the conversation. Create a ballistic chart pitting a 6.5cm against a 458 socom and the socom looses at 3000 yards but you wouldn’t use either beyond quite short ranges anyway.

    I want to see you try to shoot a 6.5 subsonic round at 3000 yards. :lol2::lol2:
     

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