LPVO Recommendation for AR15

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  • SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    I am going to hang on to it.

    I will mess around with it, and see which I prefer.

    There are always pro's and con's to each reticle. "No free lunch" so to speak. I personally think the un-busy reticle on the PST Gen 2 is great.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, I upgraded to a Nightforce NX8, which has a similar horseshoe reticle as others. It's great for up close work, but man it feels like the reticle obscures a lot of target real estate as range increases.

    And looking at your picture, it's a reminder of just how darn clear the PST gen 2 glass is for the price. The Strike Eagle really isn't in the same league.

    With the brightness turned up enough, I never found it a hinderance for fast up close target acquisition.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    There are always pro's and con's to each reticle. "No free lunch" so to speak. I personally think the un-busy reticle on the PST Gen 2 is great.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, I upgraded to a Nightforce NX8, which has a similar horseshoe reticle as others. It's great for up close work, but man it feels like the reticle obscures a lot of target real estate as range increases.

    And looking at your picture, it's a reminder of just how darn clear the PST gen 2 glass is for the price. The Strike Eagle really isn't in the same league.

    With the brightness turned up enough, I never found it a hinderance for fast up close target acquisition.

    much is made about "daylight bright illumination" for a reason, IMO it allows for faster targeting with a MUCH simpler reticle. The horseshoes on the SE's and similar circles, chevrons etc can help up close, but block a LOT of the target once you get out further, and the center reticle on less expensive scopes leaves a lot to be desired. Much easier to put the bright glowing dot on the target and fire than to try to center the black horse shoe with or without the slight rust color it turns on max brightness on a sunny day.
    this is a comparison of the PST2, and SE gen 2's max illumination(fresh battery) indoors under lights about as bright as an overcast day, big difference. the SE's illumination works in low light, starts to wash out on overcast days, and is worthless in the sun. Added the also excellent Steiner P4Xi, can be found priced close to the PST2, only 1-4, but probably the best 1x image and illumination(truly aimpoint bright) south of $1K(slightly better than the PST2). It is about 6oz lighter and smaller than the PST2, pretty much have to step up to a gen2 razor to get a brighter, clearer or more natural looking 1X image, it's on my lightweight 3 gun rig.

    PST2
    20210301_125644.jpg
    SE gen2
    20210301_130033.jpg
    P4Xi
    20210301_125759.jpg
     

    rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    Turn on the illumination, shoot it like an Aimpoint The reticle works without it, just takes a little to get used to if you are used to a more cluttered reticle. The Strike eagles do have a lot going on in the reticle, especially the gen2s. Where the SEs illumination will work on an overcast day, it doesn't work on a sunny day like the PST2s, and it illuminates the whole thing unlike the small center dot on the PST2. Messing around with pics in the basement you can see the much larger field of view on the PST2, this is why it's well worth $600(Razors are even better), the tube and controls surrounding it practically dissapear when shooting. The strike Eagles have a lot more of a ring, and a little distortion. The aimpoint has the smallest field of view, but it's also the clearest with the least distortion and can go a little brighter than the PST2 for the brightest days

    PST2
    View attachment 308092
    Aimpoint
    View attachment 308093
    Strike Eagle gen1
    View attachment 308212
    Strike Eagle gen2
    View attachment 308099

    I can tell the difference in glass in your pictures between the strike eagle and the viper pst
     

    rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    much is made about "daylight bright illumination" for a reason, IMO it allows for faster targeting with a MUCH simpler reticle. The horseshoes on the SE's and similar circles, chevrons etc can help up close, but block a LOT of the target once you get out further, and the center reticle on less expensive scopes leaves a lot to be desired. Much easier to put the bright glowing dot on the target and fire than to try to center the black horse shoe with or without the slight rust color it turns on max brightness on a sunny day.
    this is a comparison of the PST2, and SE gen 2's max illumination(fresh battery) indoors under lights about as bright as an overcast day, big difference. the SE's illumination works in low light, starts to wash out on overcast days, and is worthless in the sun. Added the also excellent Steiner P4Xi, can be found priced close to the PST2, only 1-4, but probably the best 1x image and illumination(truly aimpoint bright) south of $1K(slightly better than the PST2). It is about 6oz lighter and smaller than the PST2, pretty much have to step up to a gen2 razor to get a brighter, clearer or more natural looking 1X image, it's on my lightweight 3 gun rig.

    PST2
    View attachment 308219
    SE gen2
    View attachment 308220
    P4Xi
    View attachment 308221

    That was the first comparison I was researching alot. (Pst viper vs P4xi ) p4xi appears to be awesome, but harder to find for a good price vs a pst. Reticles and glass appear to be close in comparisons.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    That was the first comparison I was researching alot. (Pst viper vs P4xi ) p4xi appears to be awesome, but harder to find for a good price vs a pst. Reticles and glass appear to be close in comparisons.
    The P4Xi is a really nice scope. The problem is that I can’t bring myself to pay $600 for a scope that was being blown out for less than $300 three years ago, or was $450 18 months ago. I ended up getting a trijicon Accupoint 1-4 for less than $600, and it’s done well in comparison to the P4Xi my buddy got that the same time.

    I think if I didn’t know that it had been on blow out for like $289 at one point, I would have an easier time stomaching the current price. It is a really nice scope.
     

    rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    The P4Xi is a really nice scope. The problem is that I can’t bring myself to pay $600 for a scope that was being blown out for less than $300 three years ago, or was $450 18 months ago. I ended up getting a trijicon Accupoint 1-4 for less than $600, and it’s done well in comparison to the P4Xi my buddy got that the same time.

    I think if I didn’t know that it had been on blow out for like $289 at one point, I would have an easier time stomaching the current price. It is a really nice scope.

    Where did you see a Steiner p4xi for 289?

    Shit, I don’t even know where you’re seeing them fir 600 dollars lol.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    While there COULD have been a one-time-ever sale of them for $289 - I don't remember that, either - the usual "super low price" was around $475 before the price hike.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    The P4Xi is a really nice scope. The problem is that I can’t bring myself to pay $600 for a scope that was being blown out for less than $300 three years ago, or was $450 18 months ago. I ended up getting a trijicon Accupoint 1-4 for less than $600, and it’s done well in comparison to the P4Xi my buddy got that the same time.

    I think if I didn’t know that it had been on blow out for like $289 at one point, I would have an easier time stomaching the current price. It is a really nice scope.

    Snagged this one on sale for $450 a few years ago, should have bought more. It's awesome for that price, but for most the greater magnification at the same current pricing makes the PST2 a better deal. They are bright and clear enough that you can make hits much further out than lesser scopes. I have run the P4Xi out to 400 yards, and it wasn't holding me back at all on 12" plates, the PST2 made hits at that range a little faster and easier, mostly due to the finer reticle. Same distance was HARDER with my 1-8 Strike Eagle, despite the greater magnification due to the distortion and fat close range reticle. The P4Xi is faster than the PST2 at 1X, and the image is noticeably cleaner. I rarely shoot a stage past 200 yards, so 4x is plenty, but kinda wish instead of upping top end magnification on mid priced scopes, they would try to make them as light, compact and clean at 1X as possible. A mid-priced scope kinda like the March F shorty would be awesome.
     

    calicojack

    American Sporting Rifle
    MDS Supporter
    May 29, 2018
    5,348
    Cuba on the Chesapeake
    The P4Xi is a really nice scope. The problem is that I can’t bring myself to pay $600 for a scope that was being blown out for less than $300 three years ago, or was $450 18 months ago. I ended up getting a trijicon Accupoint 1-4 for less than $600, and it’s done well in comparison to the P4Xi my buddy got that the same time.

    I think if I didn’t know that it had been on blow out for like $289 at one point, I would have an easier time stomaching the current price. It is a really nice scope.

    Looks like they are $800
     

    rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    much is made about "daylight bright illumination" for a reason, IMO it allows for faster targeting with a MUCH simpler reticle. The horseshoes on the SE's and similar circles, chevrons etc can help up close, but block a LOT of the target once you get out further, and the center reticle on less expensive scopes leaves a lot to be desired. Much easier to put the bright glowing dot on the target and fire than to try to center the black horse shoe with or without the slight rust color it turns on max brightness on a sunny day.
    this is a comparison of the PST2, and SE gen 2's max illumination(fresh battery) indoors under lights about as bright as an overcast day, big difference. the SE's illumination works in low light, starts to wash out on overcast days, and is worthless in the sun. Added the also excellent Steiner P4Xi, can be found priced close to the PST2, only 1-4, but probably the best 1x image and illumination(truly aimpoint bright) south of $1K(slightly better than the PST2). It is about 6oz lighter and smaller than the PST2, pretty much have to step up to a gen2 razor to get a brighter, clearer or more natural looking 1X image, it's on my lightweight 3 gun rig.

    PST2
    View attachment 308219
    SE gen2
    View attachment 308220
    P4Xi
    View attachment 308221

    3 final things to bother you about sir.

    1. Does the Steiner come with an adjustment lever ?

    2. If you had to pick between pst 1-6 vs Steiner 1-4 for 25-200 yard shooting, which would it be?

    3. Is the Steiner really worth 200 dollars more than the pst gen 2 1-6? Cant find it anywhere less than 800 dollars now.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    3 final things to bother you about sir.

    1. Does the Steiner come with an adjustment lever ?

    2. If you had to pick between pst 1-6 vs Steiner 1-4 for 25-200 yard shooting, which would it be?

    3. Is the Steiner really worth 200 dollars more than the pst gen 2 1-6? Cant find it anywhere less than 800 dollars now.

    Yes, comes with the throw lever

    The 50% greater magnification on the PST2 is a big deal, and makes it worth it most of the time. While the Steiner's 1x is just a little flatter with less distortion, the PST2 is still great, really close to the Steiner, and a huge step up from lesser scopes. The Steiner is a little smaller and lighter, but the Vortex is still manageable.
    Back when the Steiner was $150 less, it was a toss up, shooting mosty 200yards and less, Steiner, shooting more than 200 yards, PST2. At the same price, PST unless you are really concerned about weight or shoot a lot at 1x. With the Steiner now $200 more, PST2 all day long, especially with some clearance Razors and Trijicons not too much higher.
     

    rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    Yes, comes with the throw lever

    The 50% greater magnification on the PST2 is a big deal, and makes it worth it most of the time. While the Steiner's 1x is just a little flatter with less distortion, the PST2 is still great, really close to the Steiner, and a huge step up from lesser scopes. The Steiner is a little smaller and lighter, but the Vortex is still manageable.
    Back when the Steiner was $150 less, it was a toss up, shooting mosty 200yards and less, Steiner, shooting more than 200 yards, PST2. At the same price, PST unless you are really concerned about weight or shoot a lot at 1x. With the Steiner now $200 more, PST2 all day long, especially with some clearance Razors and Trijicons not too much higher.

    Understood. Thank you for taking the time.
     

    Dogabutila

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 21, 2010
    2,359
    Mission drives the gear train. It all depends on what you are doing and how much you have to play with. Razor Gen2 HD-E 1-6 or gen 3 1-10. NF ATACR 1-8. Khales k16i or k18i are all hard to beat but $$. PST gen 2 1-6 is your best bet if you dont need / want to spend that much on the optic.
     

    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    Mission drives the gear train. It all depends on what you are doing and how much you have to play with. Razor Gen2 HD-E 1-6 or gen 3 1-10. NF ATACR 1-8. Khales k16i or k18i are all hard to beat but $$. PST gen 2 1-6 is your best bet if you dont need / want to spend that much on the optic.

    I think a good "in-between" for those that want better than the Viper PST but don't have ATACR or Razor money is the Sig Tango6 1-6.

    https://www.sigsauer.com/tango6t-1-6x24-mm.html
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I really like the Tango6, but a couple notes about that:
    1. It was a much better deal a few years ago when you could find them for $800-$900. These days, they are basically Razor money. That's OK, they're pretty much as good as one, but the days of them being crazy deals are over with.
    2. The only really good reticle for AR shooting is the 3gun reticle. The FFP reticles aren't daylight bright, and the gradations on the SFP mil and MOA reticles aren't as graduated as I'd like.

    Now, the REAL steal were the Whiskey5 1-5x24s, which were being closed out at < ~$450 and were basically heavier VX-5HDs. Those were daylight bright, had excellent glass, and were even a little lighter than the Tango6... only problem was that the reticles were basically duplexes (or circle-duplexes)
     

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