I want an AR 15 Pistol

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  • bigmancrisler

    2A Preacher
    Jun 4, 2020
    1,263
    Martinsburg, WV
    A couple points I didn't see mentioned.

    a) Unless you have access to the proper tools, fixtures and a basic 'build'
    knowledge, IMHO you are right to buy your first pistol.

    b) Unless something has changed, MD legislation prohibits new SBR's. Very
    difficult to travel out of state with them as well. Out of state residents
    can't even get permission from the ATF to temporarily bring them into MD.
    I tried and I'm in PA.

    c) Make sure the pistol you do buy is under 26" and the length of pull is
    =/<13.5" with the brace at full extension. There are LOP limiters you can
    buy but I'm not sure they will allow the pistol to meet ATF's guidelines.
    Some people will say the 13.5" LOP is just a guideline. Personally, I don't
    want to be the test case. A length > 26" turns the weapon from a 'pistol'
    to an 'other'. I can't speak on how that translates in MD.

    d) The discussion on 5.56 vs 300 Blackout for short barrels will go on for
    ever. Buy what you want or buy another Upper. Most will agree that
    10.5" - 12.5 is the shortest Barrel length you want for the 5.56. The 11.5"
    & 12.5" may not make the 26" length to be a titled as a pistol. I prefer an
    8.5" or 10" Barrel for my Blackout.

    e) And finally, do your research and select a Tier1 builder.


    How do they measure the 26” is that OAL? collapsed brace or fully extended?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    Ammo Jon

    Ultimate Member
    Mar 3, 2008
    20,787
    Ralph was saying his favorite one was only $80. I’m a bit of a G fanboy but have found some pretty sweet alternatives from customers builds.

    Like AmmoJon, I also love my little 7.5” barreled AR pistol for CCW. I am not a fan of folding braces, but it sure does help keep everything compact.

    Reminds me I have folder to install!
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    Am I the only one who thinks an AR pistol is rather miserable to shoot? Mine is braced (in case I ever become handicapped :rolleyes:) but even shouldering it the ergonomics are just awkward and uncomfortable.

    Are you shooting it suppressed? Makes all the difference in the world.
     

    pbharvey

    Habitual Testifier
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    30,158
    Are you shooting it suppressed? Makes all the difference in the world.

    Do I look like I'm made of money? :D
    No suppressor. My ergo issue is the way my head is craned over. Its like shouldering a toy gun or something.
     

    Butchb

    Member
    Mar 6, 2019
    12
    Cumberland, Md 21502
    To original Poster- I have a Ruger AR Pistol 8570 and love shooting it. Very accurate! Got a great sale price but it now is off sale. Makes people jump at indoor ranges. The owners of range enjoy shooting too. It is on Marylands handgun roster. Take a look at the specs.
    Butch
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    My local said that I need to have an hql and fill out a form for a handgun. Is this true?
    If you live in Md. and want to buy a handgun, then yes, you do need an HQL.

    To build your own, no HQL required.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    :lol:

    For the love of god DO NOT try to build a 1911.
    It takes weeks of hard work, elbow grease and precision filling.

    I learned the hard way that in the 1911 world there is no such thing as "matching" parts, unless everything was manufactured in same plant (i.e "mil spec" does not mean fitting). But as you can imagine I didn't know this at the time, I saw "mil spec" and thought I was good to go. Wrong. My build took me a few months because of the delay of order parts. It was hell. I sunk way too much money than it was worth.

    37dbb1ec81e93f48d655e8e9f3d45fc2.jpeg

    Even if you do manage to pull it off and make a functioning 1911, you will most likely be disappointed with the accuracy.

    Here's a glimpse into some of the problems I was having
    https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=796433 [see the accuracy]
    https://www.reddit.com/r/gunsmithing/comments/6aact1/1911_barrelslide_fitting_question_accuracy/

    The problem is that the accuracy of the 1911 is to an UNREASONABLE degree dependent on how well certain parts fit. And by fit I don't just mean "work" or cycle+move smoothly. I mean the degree of mm precision everything has. You can't do this all with your hand unless you got some real fancy tools (see Larry Vicker's 1911 series). However, even then not all of these parts are in your control, but dependent on the factory that manufactured them. Think about building a 1911 like building a puzzle. If there are certain pieces that are slightly smaller/bigger then the rest, then the completed puzzle may disappoint. As in you literally cannot hit the broad side of a barn from 25 yards and you get no joy from shooting it. I destroyed it.



    Glock/AR on the other hand are modular and the lower can be easily constructed+ turned into a fully functioning and ACCURATE firearm
    Are you serious? I have built a couple of very nice, and very functional 1911's from 80percents. Of course, I have about $1200 invested in jigs. What I can build your $600 you can't touch for under $1000 in terms of fit and trigger. The trigger on my first 1911 rivals the trigger on my 1967 Camp Perry National Match gun.
     

    MaxVO2

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    What is your intent with an AR pistol? My research suggested that for a .223/5.56 round you want to be 11.5" or longer for better accuracy at distance (if you care about distance). Then you also have to worry about the noise from the pistol. Apparently they are a good amount more obnoxious than a rifle length. I ended up going with a .300 pistol because they maintain accuracy better in a shorter barrel and they are more conducive to being suppressed with subsonic ammo.

    If you are just buying it for fun and shooting at 50 to 100 yards, you probably won't care about accuracy in a .223 and apparently they make blast diverters to push sound forward instead of sideways. If you're buying for home defense and concerned about blowing your eardrums out after the first shot, perhaps a suppressed .300 is a better option. 9mm is also a good option for shorter range AR pistols, but I'm fairly certain they aren't interchangeable like the AR15 platform is.

    My suggestion is to buy a striped lower and build it yourself. It isn't very difficult to do and you learn more about how your gun works if you assembled it. PSA sells a kit with the SBA3 brace and their EPT trigger for about $200, I'm sure it will go on sale when demand eventually backs down. Then you have a completed lower and can either assemble your own upper or buy a completed upper. Its really not that hard and I found it to be pretty fun to do. Good luck!


    *****The above is very good advice. If you will be using an un-supressed AR pistol as a home defense option it is obnoxiously loud even with the blast divertor IME. It is very likely you will suffer serious hearing damage unless you are wearing protection. I was at an indoor range and even with sound suppressing matting on the walls it was still really really loud. The distances involved in a HD situation are usually markedly low so accuracy is perhaps not that big of an issue, but shooting something that loud indoors will almost surely cause you serious discomfort, not to mention any family members or other friendlies in the home. Subsonic suppressed is a much bigger investment ($$$), but .300 lends itself well for the application of HD vs 5.56 in such a short firearm using a rifle round.

    You might wish to consider a 9mm option as it is much easier to land follow up shots and it is very noticeably quieter in an AR pistol configuration, but as noted above there are far fewer options available and as far as I have seen it limits some other options down the road if you decide to change up the configuration.

    Perhaps you can try one with pistol and one with a rifle cartridge out at the range and see if it is a good option for you. I was amazed how loud such a short firearm in the rifle cartridge configuration was. No way I would use it for HD due to this but they are a lot of fun out on the range to perhaps 100 yards. At least for me, the sight radius is too short for much further out.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    It cracks me up that people spend $200+ on a brace but won’t spend $200 on a stamp.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    It cracks me up that people spend $200+ on a brace but won’t spend $200 on a stamp.
    I can agree to a point. You still save a little on a brace(SbA3-4), but being an HQL holdout(and multi stamp owner), I understand the disdain of being finger printed for something that should be a right gaurunteed by the Constitution.
    I personally don't find discomfort in having a brace 'tail' resting on my clavicle and my cheek firmly planted on the buffer tube. There are better situations, I know, but all in all, a livable compromise.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    I can agree to a point. You still save a little on a brace(SbA3-4), but being an HQL holdout(and multi stamp owner), I understand the disdain of being finger printed for something that should be a right gaurunteed by the Constitution.
    I personally don't find discomfort in having a brace 'tail' resting on my clavicle and my cheek firmly planted on the buffer tube. There are better situations, I know, but all in all, a livable compromise.
    What happens when the ATF reverses their reversal on shouldering pistol braces?
     

    TangoSierra27

    Active Member
    MDS Supporter
    Feb 28, 2017
    119
    FOREST HILL
    I couldn't see your choice for home defense, I have a maverick 88 18.5 barrel, it works every time, and will leave any person Wishing they had chosen any other home. I have a Glock 9mm as backup. Hope this helps.
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,816
    What happens when the ATF reverses their reversal on shouldering pistol braces?
    I actully don't shoulder mine, per se. I stick to their opinion that "...it may come in contact with the shoulder in firing". You will never see me, and I have warned many people against, shouldering a brace on or in any forum.


    By-the-By, I have never seen a provision allowing a "cheek weld" on any pistol granted by the BATF. I don't know where that idea ever came from.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,367
    White Marsh
    I'm several years out of the AR game, and completely new to AR pistols. Am I correct in understanding that a pistol in the ATF/MD sense can essentially be an AR (HBAR not needed, right?) that doesn't have a "stock" but either an enclosed buffer tube or a fancy brace of some sort? Essentially, I could put a 11.5" pinned/welded upper on a lower that was never a rifle, slap the right tube/brace on its backside and be off to the awkward "pistol" races?

    I know a MD legal AR has to comply with the 29" OAL, but a pistol has a separate minimum? This shit is wildly confusing, and I was once fairly well versed in it.
     

    Boondock Saint

    Ultimate Member
    Dec 11, 2008
    24,367
    White Marsh
    I'm several years out of the AR game, and completely new to AR pistols. Am I correct in understanding that a pistol in the ATF/MD sense can essentially be an AR (HBAR not needed, right?) that doesn't have a "stock" but either an enclosed buffer tube or a fancy brace of some sort? Essentially, I could put a 11.5" pinned/welded upper on a lower that was never a rifle, slap the right tube/brace on its backside and be off to the awkward "pistol" races?

    I know a MD legal AR has to comply with the 29" OAL, but a pistol has a separate minimum? This shit is wildly confusing, and I was once fairly well versed in it.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,881
    Lower must have never been configured as a rifle .

    Buffer assy must be non Buttstock . The non- controversial answer is to utilize a " Pistol " buffer tube . Plain buffer tube is unquestionably legal . The various * arm braces * are currently kosher , but ATF interpretations have flip flopped in the details , and ATF could issue a new & improved Advisory Letter whenever the mood hits them .

    No Length requirements from Federal or Maryland .

    No reason you couldn't Pin & Weld if you wanted to on purpose , but it isn't a legal issue .
     

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