PCC Sub Gun Omnibus Thread

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  • rockstarr

    Major Deplorable
    Feb 25, 2013
    4,592
    The Bolshevik Lands
    16" AR9 I used for PCC competition, ended up selling it for more than I paid to get an EoTechXPS2 for another build, then went to a slimmer/lighter C-More for that rifle. No fault of the optic, and I would definitely buy another, but when they first came out, they were only $200ish, and well worth that, now that the secret is out they are near $300, and a bit overpriced IMO. Problem is, there isn't a whole lot between the $100-$150 Romeo5 and C-more, and the $500ish EoTechs, Aimpoints and MROs.

    Yup, this is what I fight with. I have a holosun 403b that I can pop right on the scorpion, but I want a 510C.

    310 dollars seems a bit much, at that point I can damn near by a sale price eotech from palmetto.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    You can also get a refurb UH1 gen2 for $330, which is both made in the USA and a lot more durable (albeit heavier). It's a brick, but it's a really viable option at the price point.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Anyone have a bead on a side mount rail for a red dot on a sub2K?
    I want a 45 degree mount and red dot that allows me to completely fold it up.
    I had tried something from Tacticon but it would not let me close all the way. Just rubbed enough that it could not close
    I have a rubber cheek guard on my stock tube I want to keep
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,734
    Socialist State of Maryland
    Anyone have a bead on a side mount rail for a red dot on a sub2K?
    I want a 45 degree mount and red dot that allows me to completely fold it up.
    I had tried something from Tacticon but it would not let me close all the way. Just rubbed enough that it could not close
    I have a rubber cheek guard on my stock tube I want to keep

    Not cheap but it folds. :D

    https://www.mcarbo.com/kel-tec-sub-2000-optic-mount.aspx
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo

    yea, I've seen that and the other one but just want it fixed at 45-60 degrees.

    This is what I have and I"m starting to think I may just need to use a different red dot instead of the tacticon. Its the optic that actually rubs on the gun.
    https://www.amazon.com/WOLTIS-Picatinny-Profile-Adapter-Attachment/dp/B01EADV6BE

    I'm wondering if I can put a rail on the side, then use the 45 mount to put it in the right spot.
     

    John from MD

    American Patriot
    MDS Supporter
    May 12, 2005
    22,734
    Socialist State of Maryland
    yea, I've seen that and the other one but just want it fixed at 45-60 degrees.

    This is what I have and I"m starting to think I may just need to use a different red dot instead of the tacticon. Its the optic that actually rubs on the gun.
    https://www.amazon.com/WOLTIS-Picatinny-Profile-Adapter-Attachment/dp/B01EADV6BE

    I'm wondering if I can put a rail on the side, then use the 45 mount to put it in the right spot.

    There should be a way of mounting a small magpul rail into the slots on the side of the fore stock. Then you would only have to roll it 90 degrees and start shooting.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    There should be a way of mounting a small magpul rail into the slots on the side of the fore stock. Then you would only have to roll it 90 degrees and start shooting.

    yes, I'm thinking of putting a rail on the side, then put he 45 degree mount to point up from that. thinking it would be off to the side but not close enough to interfere with the stock when folding it back.
    Just ordered parts to try it out.
     

    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    It Worked
    Able to close it
    45 degree mount
    9663bb4a06be1b3c8d1666c4bf312f98.jpg


    93e8e31bb38a0a2eeab743e6d8c55017.jpg

    5fddd2aabe1867acec36d3e3b8c4e1e6.jpg

    e2deba8b1c406877d8ac69e51d3dd9f9.jpg



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    The Sub-2k CQB solved this problem by having a rotating handguard. Add that and side-charging, and they'd have a respectable Gen3 gun to sell...
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    I finally had the opportunity to take my MPXs (a Gen II and a Gen III) to the range for zeroing. WOW. It's not quite 22lr recoil, but it's substantially less than my tuned direct-blowback AR-9 (14.5" JP barrel w/ P&W JP comp, TACCOM ESSB, TACCOM 3-stage buffer - no slouch, in other words). Sig really knocked it out of the park with these guns. I've heard the JP-5 is maybe a little better in terms of needing to clean it less, but for half the price, I can live with that. Looking forward to running and gunning with them at Falling Steel (etc.) in the future.

    Some other things I noticed:
    1. The extended magazine releases and magwell are required equipment if you're gonna reload on the clock. (And, yes, you've screwed up if you're reloading a PCC, but it happens, sometimes due to stage design.)
    2. The Timney trigger that comes with the MPX PCC is pretty great. Not as good as a Hiperfire Eclipse, but good enough that I don't feel like it's going to be a limiting factor on performance right away.
    3. The ambi-CH is good, but there's still a market for something like the Radian with bigger latches.
    4. I am not super impressed with the right-hand bolt release. You have to really jam it in to make it work. Not what you want on the clock. Still better than nothing for the lefties, though.

    The Thril MPX magazines worked fine for me. One of them needed light sanding on the sides to drop free, but was otherwise on point. Definitely a nice alternative to the factory MPX mags.
     

    TinCuda

    Sky Captain
    Apr 26, 2016
    1,556
    Texas
    Well, I let the Ruger PC Charger get under my skin and I finally bought one.

    Witt Machine SME linear compensator, SeeAll Tritium open sight, CNC Warrior arm brace, Streamlight Protac, Franklin PC-C1 Binary trigger. You can't see it in the picture but I got the Midwest Industries charging handle and installed it on the left side.

    This thing is a slug, heavy. I didn't do myself any favors with the weight that I added. LOL

    .,
     

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    Melnic

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 27, 2012
    15,282
    HoCo
    Forgot about this thread,
    Hope I did it right, I have a Sub2K with multi mag setup.
    I"m converting to GEE Lock so ordered the G17 plates and Glock mag release.
     

    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    Forgot about this thread,
    Hope I did it right, I have a Sub2K with multi mag setup.
    I"m converting to GEE Lock so ordered the G17 plates and Glock mag release.
    Unless something's changed, the multi-mag grip can't be converted to Glock mags. You need the actual Glock grip.
     

    woodline

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jan 8, 2017
    1,947
    Did a fun suppressed 9mm PCC comparison with a couple friends yesterday that I thought you guys might enjoy.

    The lineup: My 9mm “amphibian” configuration CMMG RDB build with hydraulic buffer, CZ Scorpion pistol, PTR 9KT MP5 clone with standard locking piece, and IMI/IWI Uzi. I believe they were all in the 8 inch barrel range, but would have to check with my friend. All were set up for trilug, so we used my Dead Air Wolfman for all to keep the suppressor consistent.

    The shooters: me with a military background and other stuff as well as token southpaw. Friend 1, who is a retired SEAL and long time competition shooter. Friend 2, who is a long time IPSC/IDPA/USPSA/multi gun competitor at a pretty high level.


    Observations

    RDB
    All three of us were impressed with how well the RDB build with the hydraulic buffer shot. It has a different recoil impulse since there is a slight hesitation once the hydraulic buffer “catches” the BCG and slows it down. We all agreed that recoil was roughly in the .22 magnum range. Friend 1 thought it was fun but is so used to MP5s that he is not sure if he would bother with a 9mm build. He is thinking about a 10mm version though. Friend 2 loved it. It was his favorite firearm of the bunch and proceeded to order the parts to build his own.

    From a lefty perspective I felt it had the lowest blowback.

    PTR 9KT
    It’s an MP5 clone so there is not much to say. It maybe had a touch more perceived recoil than the Amphibian RDB build, and maybe 10-20% more blowback. Only relevant to a lefty really.

    SZ Scorpion:
    Friend 1 felt it was his 3rd favorite of the day and thought it came in second for recoil after the RDB. Friend 2 thought it was fine but nothing special. I ranked it 4th of 4 because it launched a lot of grit into my teeth.

    Uzi:
    Friend 2 and I were most pleasantly surprised by this one, ranking it third. It ran fast and accurate, with less blowback than I expected, ranking second overall for that. Friend 1 owns it and thus was unsurprised. He ranked it 4th.

    Overall we agreed that the Amphibian RDB was most likely going to be the fastest and best setup for anyone familiar with ARs. We did an informal course of fire with each firearm but didn’t time it because I forgot I had my timer with me until later in the day.

    In terms of blowback, all would be fine for a right hander but I enjoyed the RDB and the Uzi the most. The PTR would be up there with a different locking piece, which we all knew going in. The Scorpion was the most disappointing for me in this category, as it flung a lot of grit into my face.

    There wasn’t really a big winner in “quietest” category, all sounded pretty good considering we were using supersonic range ammo. Next time I’ll bring a couple boxes of subsonic ammo to see if anything stands out.

    We should be able to scrounge up an MPX and a KP9 for a future comparison, and I can bring my Keltec sub2000 for people to really experience budget PCC world. Looking forward to trying the ones we shot today with the new entrants at a future day. I will remember my shot timer next time so we can see if there are any surprises, or if best times tend to cluster around people’s levels of familiarity.

    All in all it was a fun day at the range, and I was glad to see that my amphibian build held up to some of the more popular PCCs out there.
     

    nosbocaj

    Member
    Oct 11, 2021
    28
    Here's one of my favorites: B&T GHM9SD. I'm told there are only about 25-50 SD kits in the entire country, so definitely not something you see everyday. Putting crappy 115 gr. through and having it be completely silent will never get old! It is a pain to clean though...
     

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    erwos

    The Hebrew Hammer
    MDS Supporter
    Mar 25, 2009
    13,866
    Rockville, MD
    IMHO, the MP5-alikes and Uzi have bad enough triggers that I would personally disqualify them as real USPSA/IDPA PCC options for people who care much about being competitive. I ran an MP5-alike once upon a time and it was just not a good experience, light recoil was not enough to offset the trigger. Supposedly Timney is coming out with a drop-in trigger pack at the end of the year that makes it a much more appealing option, so maybe I'll revisit that later on. I have one of the old SW SP10s, and there's really no reason other than the trigger (and safety, but that's fixable) that it couldn't keep up with an MPX.

    The Scorpion rifle was a really good option back when it was like... $800. At $1100, forget it, doing a CMMG RDB build (or even just buying the Resolute 100) is the clear winner if performance is the top consideration. Next stop after that is an MPX or GMR-15, and then a JP-5.
     

    USArmyJoe

    Pretty good shot
    Oct 5, 2021
    163
    AA County
    Did a fun suppressed 9mm PCC comparison with a couple friends yesterday that I thought you guys might enjoy.

    The lineup: My 9mm “amphibian” configuration CMMG RDB build with hydraulic buffer, CZ Scorpion pistol, PTR 9KT MP5 clone with standard locking piece, and IMI/IWI Uzi. I believe they were all in the 8 inch barrel range, but would have to check with my friend. All were set up for trilug, so we used my Dead Air Wolfman for all to keep the suppressor consistent.

    The shooters: me with a military background and other stuff as well as token southpaw. Friend 1, who is a retired SEAL and long time competition shooter. Friend 2, who is a long time IPSC/IDPA/USPSA/multi gun competitor at a pretty high level.


    Observations

    RDB
    All three of us were impressed with how well the RDB build with the hydraulic buffer shot. It has a different recoil impulse since there is a slight hesitation once the hydraulic buffer “catches” the BCG and slows it down. We all agreed that recoil was roughly in the .22 magnum range. Friend 1 thought it was fun but is so used to MP5s that he is not sure if he would bother with a 9mm build. He is thinking about a 10mm version though. Friend 2 loved it. It was his favorite firearm of the bunch and proceeded to order the parts to build his own.

    This is really interesting. I haven't considered a hydraulic buffer, and would love to try my Banshee+Wolfman with it. It is already such a soft shooter, I would love to feel the difference!
     

    outrider58

    Eats Bacon Raw
    MDS Supporter
    Jul 29, 2014
    49,818
    Did a fun suppressed 9mm PCC comparison with a couple friends yesterday that I thought you guys might enjoy...


    ...All in all it was a fun day at the range, and I was glad to see that my amphibian build held up to some of the more popular PCCs out there.

    Very good. I've been working on a project lately modding an RDB system to an MP5 compatible AR upper and lower. If I ever get my barrel/bcg, I'm pretty much ready to get it going. This will be a pistol build and include an integral folding tube/brace.
     

    teratos

    My hair is amazing
    MDS Supporter
    Patriot Picket
    Jan 22, 2009
    59,775
    Bel Air
    Very good. I've been working on a project lately modding an RDB system to an MP5 compatible AR upper and lower. If I ever get my barrel/bcg, I'm pretty much ready to get it going. This will be a pistol build and include an integral folding tube/brace.

    :thumbsup:
     

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