Question regarding M4A1 clone legality

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  • mace2364

    Member
    Feb 5, 2015
    12
    Hi guys,

    Sorry if this has been done to death. I’m trying to determine if there’s a legal issue in MD with a colt M4A1 clone. It’s essentially a clone of this.....

    https://www.colt.com/detail-page/colt-ar-15-socom-carbine-223556-161-301-knights-rail-forend

    The actual Colt M4A1 is listed as not banned on the state police website.

    This clone has an actual Colt M4A1 barrel, with a pinned and welded extended A2 device. It even has the KAC rail. The actual upper receiver isn’t colt, and neither is the bcg-though they’re not different other than who actually made them. So, I thought it would be kosher.

    I’m asking because the dealer in MD I shipped it to, to transfer it is telling me he doesn’t want to transfer it as is. He said he’ll pull the upper and transfer the lower(after a 7 day wait). I’m a bit confused as to why.
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    The Colt has a heavy barrel. It's completely legit.

    But check the clone manufacturer to be sure they advertise it as a heavy barrel. If not, that may be the issue with your FFL.
    What clone are you talking about?
     

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    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Hi guys,

    Sorry if this has been done to death. I’m trying to determine if there’s a legal issue in MD with a colt M4A1 clone. It’s essentially a clone of this.....

    https://www.colt.com/detail-page/colt-ar-15-socom-carbine-223556-161-301-knights-rail-forend

    The actual Colt M4A1 is listed as not banned on the state police website.

    This clone has an actual Colt M4A1 barrel, with a pinned and welded extended A2 device. It even has the KAC rail. The actual upper receiver isn’t colt, and neither is the bcg-though they’re not different other than who actually made them. So, I thought it would be kosher.

    I’m asking because the dealer in MD I shipped it to, to transfer it is telling me he doesn’t want to transfer it as is. He said he’ll pull the upper and transfer the lower(after a 7 day wait). I’m a bit confused as to why.


    That firearm is indeed listed as banned on the MSP site.

    Colt
    Colt AR-15 model LE6920 SOCOM
    Banned Copy of an enumerated weapon 2/28/2018
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    It explicitly says it's a heavy barrel in the description so I don't see the issue.

    SOCOM barrel is not a true heavy barrel, since it has the reduction for the grenade launcher mounting.
     

    dontpanic

    Ultimate Member
    Jul 7, 2013
    6,631
    Timonium
    That firearm is indeed listed as banned on the MSP site.

    Colt
    Colt AR-15 model LE6920 SOCOM
    Banned Copy of an enumerated weapon 2/28/2018

    He is asking about the M4A1, which is not banned.
     

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    SkiPatrolDude

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Oct 24, 2017
    3,331
    Timonium-Lutherville
    SOCOM barrel is not a true heavy barrel, since it has the reduction for the grenade launcher mounting.

    Doesn’t matter. The fact that it is marketed and sold by the manufacturer as a “heavy” barrel, it’s good to go.

    MD FFL’s were selling tons of these before Colt decided to stop making them for civilians (up until recently again).

    The 6920 SOCOM and the M4A1 clone are identical besides the receiver markings. But the catch is that the M4A1 version markets it as a heavy barrel in the description and is therefore not considered a copy of an enumerated firearm and is legal.

    Except I will say, if you’re building “essentially a clone of this”, per your post, make certain the barrel or upper is marketed as heavy as well. A BCM SOCOM barrel, for example, would by most interpretations not suffice.

    Makes no sense, but that’s to be expected.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Doesn’t matter. The fact that it is marketed and sold by the manufacturer as a “heavy” barrel, it’s good to go.

    MD FFL’s were selling tons of these before Colt decided to stop making them for civilians (up until recently again).

    The 6920 SOCOM and the M4A1 clone are identical besides the receiver markings. But the catch is that the M4A1 version markets it as a heavy barrel in the description and is therefore not considered a copy of an enumerated firearm and is legal.

    Makes no sense, but that’s to be expected.

    Yep, I'm aware, but since MSP still has the 6920SOCOM still listed as banned by model number, means that any rifle listed that way doesn't get transferred by every FFL, since they don't know.

    This is why I hate the Rifle list, especially in light of fact that it really carries no force of law and is not mandated by any state statute. While it is "helpful", MSP will use it to overstep their administrative authority at every chance they get, and this is a perfect example of that.

    BTW, thank you for being the first to step in and explain the issue and the fight we had to get the M4A1 approved based on the marketing, and not the look of the barrel under the 6920SOCOM. (Yes I can be construed as a dick for not explaining it myself)
     

    mace2364

    Member
    Feb 5, 2015
    12
    This is a carbine that I put together from parts. The barrel I used is an actual Colt military M4A1 barrel.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    It says that model is "not banned". I really don't care about the SKU. I have absolutely no clue why anyone would.

    That sku is the original model number and colt still goes by it if you call them, as they use it as the model number for their firearm.

    That "sku" is what got submitted originally and what was originally banned under that model number. Any sales post that has the sku/model number still gets banned even after we worked to get the rifle approved based on description. In doing so, instead of removing the sku/model number from the list, MSP added the M4A1 to the list.

    While you and I don't care about that sku/model number, MSP and those dealers that have no clue, still go by it. This is why the list is complete and utter BS, when is comes to copies.

    So, since the add displays the sku, MSP will go by the sku as well as some dealers, and thus consider it banned. BTW,
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    This is a carbine that I put together from parts. The barrel I used is an actual Colt military M4A1 barrel.

    If you used an actual M4A1 barrel, that is NOT a heavy barrel, then you have assembled a banned firearm in Maryland.
     

    mace2364

    Member
    Feb 5, 2015
    12
    If you used an actual M4A1 barrel, that is NOT a heavy barrel, then you have assembled a banned firearm in Maryland.

    Colt says it is in their listing for the M4A1. I have seen some other vendors produce “M4A1” barrels and claim they’re something else. It is the same profile under the handguards as other HBARs I’ve had-with the obvious exception of the cutouts for the M203.
     

    dblas

    Past President, MSI
    MDS Supporter
    Apr 6, 2011
    13,087
    Colt says it is in their listing for the M4A1. I have seen some other vendors produce “M4A1” barrels and claim they’re something else. It is the same profile under the handguards as other HBARs I’ve had-with the obvious exception of the cutouts for the M203.

    If you used the same barrel that Colt uses, then you are golden.

    If the barrel you used doesn't have the cutouts, then you "should" be good to go, but per MSP guidance, it needs to be marketed as HBAR/Heavy Barrel to pass MSP sniff test. Is it stupid? Yes. Does it make sense? Nope. Could you potentially get hammered if someone gets a bug and decides to inspect your rifle? There in lies the question. My answer is probably not, but then again, this is Maryland and strange shit happens. Not that it ever has yet.
     

    mace2364

    Member
    Feb 5, 2015
    12
    If you used the same barrel that Colt uses, then you are golden.

    If the barrel you used doesn't have the cutouts, then you "should" be good to go, but per MSP guidance, it needs to be marketed as HBAR/Heavy Barrel to pass MSP sniff test. Is it stupid? Yes. Does it make sense? Nope. Could you potentially get hammered if someone gets a bug and decides to inspect your rifle? There in lies the question. My answer is probably not, but then again, this is Maryland and strange shit happens. Not that it ever has yet.

    Yeah it is verbatim the same barrel, not a copy.
     

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