Primer Notifications

davsco · Feb 3, 2021

eh, nothing is going to please everybody. the good news is i think demand is starting to wane just a bit. brownells has pmc bronze .223 for $900/1000, which is 3x+ what it was a year ago, BUT it's remained in-stock for over 24 hours now. when folks get enough to be comfortable they have enough, demand will fall off.

Yingpin · Feb 3, 2021

Here's a primer notification for you :innocent0

In our Classifieds-

Primers:
2000 count CCI #500 small pistol primers $400 per 1000
1044 count CCI #300 large pistol primers $315

Looks like Leper beat me to it and notified you guys of this deal! Wonder why they are still in stock.

Muleskinner · Feb 3, 2021

The bots being used to purchase primers when they are made available through retailers could easily be defeated by simply allowing people to place primers on backorder. I can't find any retail vendor that allows back orders on primers so as soon as they hit the web page and the bots pick up the change in status they're gone almost immediately. Instead of listing primers in stock these retailers would be better served by allowing customers to place these components on backorder and then filling those orders on a first come first serve basis. I have been paying close attention to the discord notification discussions and it appears to me that much of the primer purchasing is being done by non reloaders who are simply flipping these primers at three to four times their retail price on auction sites like GunBroker. They could be stopped dead in their tracks if these retailers would allow back orders

Archeryrob · Feb 3, 2021

Ok, so how do we as a community force supplies to change practices?

Message boards, like this one, use Captcha to prevent bots from signing up and spamming and other things. They are PHP based application, just like web stores are. It would be a simple addition for their software people to add.

this would also end if people would stop buy from them on Gun broker

The tried to stop this in 2018, but never went to a floor vote.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr7160

It wouldn't be very hard for them to add Google reCaptcha
https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/

Kirkster · Feb 3, 2021

A few of the sites have started banning IPs that users have bots running. I don’t see this fixing it as people just use VPNs to change their IPs. So vendors are treating it as DDOS attacks I guess.

There are sites like the Discord site that post up when primers hit various sites. The primers are gone in less than 2 minutes. So people have various schemes set up where they keep one cheap item in a shopping cart so that they can click on the primers or powder and are ready to check out with everything already filled out and just have to hit update cart and checkout. This seems like the only way to win the Primer Hunger games at the moment. You have to be fast or lucky.

Every time Powder Valley has primers come up in the Discord site their server crashes in the first 2 minutes...

Not sure things are going to settle soon at the rate Ammo and components are being made.

Archeryrob · Feb 3, 2021

I called Natchez about my LPP order becuase I got a pending charge and order confirmation e-mail, but nothing showing in the web store for an order. He said a few days and it will post once processed.

While I had him on the phone I asked him and Bots buying primers and Google reCapthca and he had no idea what the latter was, but he did confirm they know about the bots and their IT people are talking about what to do about them. Bots are human so can't react to monitor based choices like Captcha and ReCaptcha use. Sems to me to be an fix, but I would assume they are in over their head with PHP programming. If you break the code in one page (small block on the web store) The entire store or sections of pages will not load. Essentially putting the store offline.

EDIT, just logged back into Natchez and the have hCaptcha running

lazarus · Feb 3, 2021

Yingpin said:
Here's a primer notification for you

In our Classifieds-

Primers:
2000 count CCI #500 small pistol primers $400 per 1000
1044 count CCI #300 large pistol primers $315

Looks like Leper beat me to it and notified you guys of this deal! Wonder why they are still in stock.

Doesn’t come with a calloused reach around.

RuralRifleGuy · Feb 3, 2021

Archeryrob said:
EDIT, just logged back into Natchez and the have hCaptcha running

That's just Cloudflare doing it automatically because of site traffic/suspicious activity, I get it just about every time I visit a site using TOR even ones without a lot of constant traffic (e.g. longrangehunting.com). If I go to the same site in standard or private browsing it won't show it. Probably caused by a bunch of bots checking the site constantly but not a complete discouragement to bots because it won't ask for the captcha when site traffic is low like if they implement one into the checkout or login process.

cotman68 · Feb 4, 2021

Took a ride to Shyda’s this morning since I was off work and it’s only an hour from my house. They had no SPP available but I was able to get 200- CCI benchrest SRP and 200- CCI LPP and a couple pounds of powder. Last month you were able to get 300- each. $4 per hundred. Lil’ Gun was $25 and HP-38 was $28

Aamdskeetshooter · Feb 4, 2021

cotman68 said:
Took a ride to Shyda’s this morning since I was off work and it’s only an hour from my house. They had no SPP available but I was able to get 200- CCI benchrest SRP and 200- CCI LPP and a couple pounds of powder. Last month you were able to get 300- each. $4 per hundred. Lil’ Gun was $25 and HP-38 was $28

Did you happen to see if they had any shotgun primers?

cotman68 · Feb 4, 2021

Aamdskeetshooter said:
Did you happen to see if they had any shotgun primers?

I did not , sorry

Muleskinner · Feb 4, 2021

Archeryrob said:
Ok, so how do we as a community force supplies to change practices?

Message boards, like this one, use Captcha to prevent bots from signing up and spamming and other things. They are PHP based application, just like web stores are. It would be a simple addition for their software people to add.

this would also end if people would stop buy from them on Gun broker

The tried to stop this in 2018, but never went to a floor vote.
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr7160

It wouldn't be very hard for them to add Google reCaptcha
https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/

I contacted brownells, Midway USA and powder valley to alert them that there were bots being used to purchase primers. I haven't heard from Brownells but Midway USA and powder valley both adamantly deny that bots are actually purchasing these primers. the truth of the matter is with the sophisticated bot there's no way they would even know.

Archeryrob · Feb 4, 2021

Good lord, here is a page of bots you can run browser based just on chrome on your computer. I'd run one but don;t want to pay for it.
https://cop.supply/chrome-extension-bots/

Then the serious people are using server base bots
https://cop.supply/sneaker-bot-servers/

cotman68 · Feb 4, 2021

Archeryrob said:
Good lord, here is a page of bots you can run browser based just on chrome on your computer. I'd run one but don;t want to pay for it.
https://cop.supply/chrome-extension-bots/

Then the serious people are using server base bots
https://cop.supply/sneaker-bot-servers/

I wouldn’t even know how to use something like that , I can barely figure out how to use Tapatalk on MDS.

lim144 · Feb 4, 2021

Many places now just sell them in person now. Shydas being one.

Muleskinner · Feb 5, 2021

Molly's place in kennedyville has quite a few bricks of primers on the shelf small pistol small rifle large pistol large rifle

Only $150 a brick for something they probably didn't pay more than $35 or so for. They can go straight to hell. That's no better than the ******** cheaper than dirt does

Melnic · Feb 5, 2021

Muleskinner said:
Molly's place in kennedyville has quite a few bricks of primers on the shelf small pistol small rifle large pistol large rifle

Only $150 a brick for something they probably didn't pay more than $35 or so for. They can go straight to hell. That's no better than the ******** cheaper than dirt does

I'll play devil's advocate here.
If they normally can sell 10 bricks a week and now only can acquire 1 or 2 a week, would they be better off selling for $45 , those 2 bricks are gone (and you won't get them cause someone who already has 5 bricks at home bought them) or have them on the shelf for someone who has none and will pay $150/1000? If they don't sell, they lower the price?

I keep hearing from sellers that the problem with lowering the price is they can't do any volume and the inventory is not being replaced.

economics of supply and demand

cheaper than dirt cancelled orders that they took then put the items back up at a higher price.
Some MD gun shops in 2013 took HBARS and marked them up from $800 to $1500 even though other states did not have this going on and the supply was just fine and HBARS were not getting banned but I heard a guy at a shop say "you don't know, what will happen, get one now"

I don't know Molly's but some of these smaller shops can't get inventory in and make sales, so they have to increase Margin. If they sell those bricks around the time they get in more, then they have priced it right for supply and demand.

Muleskinner · Feb 5, 2021

Melnic said:
I'll play devil's advocate here.
If they normally can sell 10 bricks a week and now only can acquire 1 or 2 a week, would they be better off selling for $45 , those 2 bricks are gone (and you won't get them cause someone who already has 5 bricks at home bought them) or have them on the shelf for someone who has none and will pay $150/1000? If they don't sell, they lower the price?

I keep hearing from sellers that the problem with lowering the price is they can't do any volume and the inventory is not being replaced.

economics of supply and demand

cheaper than dirt cancelled orders that they took then put the items back up at a higher price.
Some MD gun shops in 2013 took HBARS and marked them up from $800 to $1500 even though other states did not have this going on and the supply was just fine and HBARS were not getting banned but I heard a guy at a shop say "you don't know, what will happen, get one now"

I don't know Molly's but some of these smaller shops can't get inventory in and make sales, so they have to increase Margin. If they sell those bricks around the time they get in more, then they have priced it right for supply and demand.

I was able to buy 5,000 small pistol primers from Midway USA last week after notification at $45 per brick. While I'm sure Midway USA does a much greater volume of sales than Molly's I guarantee you Molly's wholesale price is not so high that they have to charge $150 a brick. While they may lower the cost if they don't sell after a while it would be much easier for them to charge half that and sell them. Well I'm a firm supporter of free market principles there is a point where you alienate your customers. Charging four times the street price of any product is one sure way to do that.

Melnic · Feb 5, 2021

Still staying on the "devil's advocate side" I 'm not sure $45 a brick is what I would call the street price when very few people are getting that price.
ammo seek almost NEVER shows primers in stock and your what I would consider lucky if not smart to do what ever you did to get them for $45.
Most people are not able to. Midway sells so much other stuff that they are not willing to increase the price (for reasons of backlash that you state).
their benifit of needed profit is not much for primers. People however are buying them at $45 then selling from their home @ $100 or more.
I'd much rather a the store/distributor/manufacturer profit that $ to stay in a healthy business state cause we need them more than the guy spending all day on the bots to buy primers and flip them.

Archeryrob · Feb 5, 2021

Melnic said:
ammo seek almost NEVER shows primers in stock

Ammo seek has a lot of suppliers it checks, but Midway and Natchez and a few other do not pop up on it. Do an ammo search and roll through the manufacturers selection. Hundreds in the but a few big ones aren't listed.

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