Paper cartridges

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  • Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I was interested in making them for my 44 pistol. I was debating on wether to buy a Eras Gone mold where the bullet can be lubed or just using a round ball load and still lubing it. Has anyone done the cartridges with pre-lubed bullets and does it make life easier than just round ball cartridges?

    I am not opposed to, or looking to get a better round than the round ball. I like them, but I thought a pre-lubed bullet may make shooting easier.

    Thoughts and ideas?
     

    iH8DemLibz

    When All Else Fails.
    Apr 1, 2013
    25,396
    Libtardistan
    Lose the paper altogether and just use a lubed bullet.

    Keep in mind that a BP revolver cylinder is designed to shave lead off of a round ball.

    Make certain your bullets will fit the cylinder so no shaving takes place.

    You want a transitional fit.
     

    Mike OTDP

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 12, 2008
    3,319
    From a practical perspective, round balls shoot straighter. I'd stick with those. If you want a time-saver, try pre-measured powder charges. You can buy small vials on Amazon (blood vials), or empty Speer shot capsules. The .38 caliber capsules will hold up to ~20 grains, the .45 Colt ones up to nearly 30.
     

    Biggfoot44

    Ultimate Member
    Aug 2, 2009
    32,884
    Back in the day, the US Mil used paper ctgs with conical just about exclusively, throughout the entire cap & ball era . ( FWIW, the CSA used mixture of paper ctg and loose powder , but that was more a matter of manufacturing and logistic capacities than preference .)

    It waa a LOT easier and quicker to load with paper ctgs ... As long as they were mass produced and issued to you .

    In modern times there is not ready source of authentic paper pre treated for easy ignition and combustibility, so making you own would enclude treating your own paper stock . Some reenactors and living history people do it for the authenticity , but for recreation shooting it is much simplier to use loose .

    ( Further FWIW , a few years ago the American Rifleman printed a feature article examining a sampling of authentic, original, War Between the States era ctgs from various contractors. There were huge differences . iirc bullet wieghts varied from 190 to 240gr , and powder charges from 17 to 30 plus gr .)

    The other implied underling question , should you use round ball, traditional conical, or modern " conical, specifically designed for hunting or target shooting ? Nobody can tell you. Try RB , and at least one comical to see which Your gun(s) shoot the best.



    Waiting for MikeOTDP to correct me . Added- He was typing while I was typing, just faster.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,163
    Richard Lee designed a special conical for the Ruger Old Army, see the details in Modern Reloading Second Edition page 201. The molds which make one conical and one round ball are still sold.

    Lee said the conicals grouped tighter than round balls but shot to a much higher point of impact because of the increased weight of the bullet and the reduced powder capacity which gave different velocities between the two designs.
     

    ras_oscar

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 23, 2014
    1,666
    so, just to satisfy my curiosity; If I wished to roll my own paper cartridges, how would I source the paper?
     

    noahhh

    Active Member
    Jan 28, 2009
    254
    Arnold,Md
    I like to use Japanese rice paper (from a local art supply store). It is kind of porous which I think helps to aid ignition. I soak it in a super-saturated mix of salt peter in water. Never had a misfire or incomplete combustion.
     

    Blacksmith101

    Grumpy Old Man
    Jun 22, 2012
    22,163

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    Re-floating this again. I just played with it the other day and made the tapered dowel for it. You take Hair perm hair wraps I found them at Sally's Beauty supply locally. Spin them around the tapered dowel and dab of glue stick and roll it up. Let dry, charge the powder and drop wad and ball on top and twist the top.

    The load great and fairly quickly. Shoot fine too, but I only made six and I fired the 1858 dry and didn't lube the cylinder rod and by the third shot it was getting stiff. Thinking of trying a cleaner powder. Suggestions?

    What i learned:
    - Rolling the paper takes practice and is not as easy as it looks.
    - The wad needs to stick to the bullet to push them in together. The wad turns 90 degrees half and time and becomes a PITA, if not. I tried glue to begin with but thing that is not a long term solution. Maybe a small dip of crisco on the wad. The video the guy uses cheap wood and sticky wads with a veggie wad for the powder.
    - When seating the cartridge you crush paper all down on top of the ball. I assume with would all just burn off on the first shot and not be a problem. I picked them out, bt that was a PITA.

    The video I got the inspiration from. Not getting it to embed


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15O4yYu7i7Y&t=57s
     
    Last edited:

    jt2100r

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2014
    217
    Huntingtown
    that's what I do. you need to rip the paper off the top of the ball after its seated in the cylinder. the glue goes on before the paper is rolled up. when you twist the paper the ball and wad will seat on the powder.I watched a video also , can't remember which one.
     

    jt2100r

    Active Member
    Aug 2, 2014
    217
    Huntingtown
    I just put the wad in with long tweezers and drop the ball on top. When I twist the paper the wad and ball compact on the powder.No lube just a wad, you don't need lube with a wad.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I made about 22 and ran out of ball and I need to cast some more. But it is enough to test this American Pioneer Powder I got to see if it does not foul the cylinder pin as bad a 3F black powder. I would rather use BP but without pulling the cylinders to reload it starts to bind on me. We are shooting tomorrow in the warmer weather after I go hunting.

    I got 8" tweezers from amazon and half the time the lodge flat I i can push them down enough to drop the ball directly on them. Other tubes need to have it dropped, pulled and repeated three times or so and defaults to sideways. The use a pinch and slide it down tight and twist the top and cut the excess twist off. I bought MTM P50-45 cases to hold them and they are too short for 45 colt or these paper cartridges. I can't shut the lids. I had to order 4 MTM P50-44 cases to make more up. The 44 hold a longer OAL cartridge than the 45.

    Do you pick the paper out of the top of the cylinder? The ram really crushes it in there and last time I di and it was a PITA. I was figuring the first shot would burn the other five out and the ball and wad are sealing the chambers.

    Living and learning and stumbling through.
     

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    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    The two on the right I tried dipping the ball in cold bacon grease to stick to the wad to drop it all down together, which works. The paper gets soft fast and doesn't like the grease and rips easily then.
     

    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I was out of .454 round balls. Poured a bunch from 10 -12 today. I’ll have to make some more soon. Waiting on my 45LC 50 cartridge boxes to come in to have something to store them in

    I forgot to add I shot them with and without paper in the front of the cylinder and no noticeable difference. If I tore the top the loose paper came up with the lead ring and blew it off. If I pressed it with the paper twist the twist came out but the lead ring and top paper stayed in the top of the cylinder and just blew out
     

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    Archeryrob

    Undecided on a great many things
    Mar 7, 2013
    3,064
    Washington Co. - Fairplay
    I got it down to a science now.

    I roll the tubes and stack them in cartridge case.
    Use my 21 grain spout and flask and fill the tubes with powder.
    Take a felt wad and wipe some old chap stick on the upper side
    Place a .454 round ball on center of the wad in the chap stick.
    pickup ball and wad by the ball with 8" tweezers and lower into tube and let go.
    push by top of the ball and slide ball and wad down, twist top and trim and place back in cartridge case.
     

    Horseman308

    Active Member
    Jan 27, 2016
    222
    I got it down to a science now.

    I roll the tubes and stack them in cartridge case.
    Use my 21 grain spout and flask and fill the tubes with powder.
    Take a felt wad and wipe some old chap stick on the upper side
    Place a .454 round ball on center of the wad in the chap stick.
    pickup ball and wad by the ball with 8" tweezers and lower into tube and let go.
    push by top of the ball and slide ball and wad down, twist top and trim and place back in cartridge case.
    Sorry if I missed this before, but do you live your wads (like the guy in t he video), or do you just shoot them dry, except for the chapstick?

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
     

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