MoCo passes ghost gun bill

Allen65 said:

They seem to have made a definitions mistake similar to what the MD long gun background check did for the definition of "dealer. Check out the wording:

“Ghost gun” means a firearm, including an unfinished frame or
receiver, that lacks a unique serial number engraved or cased in
metal alloy on the frame or receiver by a licensed manufacturer,
maker or importer under federal law or markings in accordance
with 27 C.F.R. § 479.102. It does not include a firearm that has
been rendered permanently inoperable, or a firearm that is not
required to have a serial number in accordance with the Federal
Gun Control Act of 1968.
​

Under GCA 68, firearms made by individuals not for sale are not required to have serial numbers. And therefore they don't fit the definition of "Ghost Gun" for the purposes of the MoCo bill. I wonder which of the Anti groups provided the draft wording?

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Yep. Sounds like "ghost guns" are STILL 100% LEGAL under this law, as long as you are a law abiding citizens. All of my homemade firearms have a serial number on them. (of course, I don't live in Montgomery county).

teratos said:

All of my homemade firearms have a serial number on them.

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What is it: FU Frosh on all of them?

sygata said:

“Ghost gun” means a firearm, including an unfinished frame or receiver
Does that mean my 0% billet lower is a firearm in MoCo?

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All the black oxide pipes in my home and workplace could easily be made into a shotgun.

Typical politicians nothing but a waste of breath

What if I have some really old, pre 1968 guns that don't have serial numbers? Are they ghost guns now? I mean, I assume a couple are haunted.

It's hard to keep track of the relentless assault on our rights, but MD never passed a bill that did this?

sygata said:

“Ghost gun” means a firearm, including an unfinished frame or receiver
Does that mean my 0% billet lower is a firearm in MoCo?

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yup. go register it

erwos said:

None of you guys showed up to fight it. That's one reason we lost so bad. One dude showed up to testify against it. ONE GUY.

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One guy showed up to fight a truly stupid, do-nothing bill that would inevitably pass anyway. That one guy merely wasted several hours of his life, with the only result being putting himself on the public radar as an undesirable, noisy gun nut.

(No, it doesn't matter whether he used reasonable arguments to present a solid case; he's still an undesirable gun nut in their eyes, and in the eyes of a majority of his fellow citizens.)

Frankly, if the MoCo council wastes more of its time on this sort of nonsense, it may keep them from other acts of stupidity that might affect me.

Go ahead and ignore this law; it will help you to get into the proper mindset to ignore other stupid and unconstitutional legislation. We need a lot more citizen dumb-ass law nullificationists.

Bob A said:

One guy showed up to fight a truly stupid, do-nothing bill that would inevitably pass anyway. That one guy merely wasted several hours of his life, with the only result being putting himself on the public radar as an undesirable, noisy gun nut.

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It was about 30 minutes of my time. Apparently, everyone hiding like a battered gun owner didn't work either. Not to worry, though, if you have an HQL at all, you're on the list. No need for noise.

If everyone is so scared that they won't even bother to put in ANY work - no testimony, no showing up, no nothing - we're gonna lose by default. It's that simple. Hiding is not a long-term strategy. You lose badly enough enough times, you won't even be able to use those guns in public anymore, and no one in their right mind holds on to unusable felonies in their basement for long.

erwos said:

It was about 30 minutes of my time. Apparently, everyone hiding like a battered gun owner didn't work either. Not to worry, though, if you have an HQL at all, you're on the list. No need for noise.

If everyone is so scared that they won't even bother to put in ANY work - no testimony, no showing up, no nothing - we're gonna lose by default. It's that simple. Hiding is not a long-term strategy. You lose badly enough enough times, you won't even be able to use those guns in public anymore, and no one in their right mind holds on to unusable felonies in their basement for long.

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Sorry to read that that was you.

Did you really expect that anything you could have said would have changed one vote? None of those toads would risk alienating the local Karens by voting against that bill, no matter how useless and stupid it was.

Pointless excursions to testify against this crap will get you nothing. They do not care what you have to say. They are the functional equivalent of the MD GA, without the advantage of having a few reasonable members.

Over 4000 2A supporters testified in Annapolis in 2013; they still pushed their bill through, despite a showing that was easily 100 times larger than any other piece of legislation had ever produced.

They later destroyed the Handgun Permit Review Board, after slandering one of its former members as a flack for the firearms industry, and forcefully removing her from the hearing when she had the temerity to try to speak for more than two minutes. You'd have thought she would receive some small level of respect, but you'd have been wrong. They don't care what anybody says.


I take the position of non-compliance. It works in even worse places - NY "Safe Act" is ignored by 90% of the AR owners in the state, and nothing happened to them. The more people who ignore stupid legislation, the better.

I should probably state that I take my position out of disgust, not fear. I will no longer waste my time and energy in a futile attempt to change the minds of these politicians, because they will not listen, and they do not care what you or I have to say, unless it coincides with what they want to hear. That is much more the case in MoCo than Annapolis.

I expect the MD GA to contain even fewer Republicans after the next round of gerrymandering, now that the SCOTUS has given the state carte blanche to do more of what it does so well.

This state is nearly totally corrupt. If you want to make changes, you'll have to buy them by outbidding the Bloombergs and their ilk. Make no mistake, it would produce a bidding war that you would be hard pressed to win. Because in Maryland, legislators only listen to the money.

Bob A is totally correct. I will add, since I swim in MoCo’s Karen-infested waters, that not only is opposing this sort of thing in THIS county (outside of court) completely and utterly unable to make the Kouncil Of Karens give up their hatred of anything related to guns and of you personally, but attempting to do so galvanizes them.

Because they operate in an hermetically sealed light-speed feedback loop of disdain for you and everything you say or do, coming to them to tell them they’re wrong instantly strengthens their commitment to doing anything they think will hurt you. This sounds hyperbolic, but it’s not. This is medieval religious war grade hatred. This is witch burning quality hatred. I’ve listened to these people speak amongst themselves. They talk in terms of wishing they could lock up every gun owner, R-voter, no-BLM-sign-in-yarder. Not jokingly, not ironically, but literally wish they could do it.

Appearing before them on this sort of matter gives them something mockable they can bitterly laugh and roll their eyes about when the taxpayers buy them a nice dinner out after the meeting. They didn’t respect your visit or consider your information or perspective for a second. At best they pitied you, and more likely they shared condescending jokes about it the moment the coast was clear. Because that’s what they think of you, and they are the monolithic political power in the county.

I’m not ragging on you, erwos, your motivations, or your commitment, or character. I’m telling you how those folks, their financiers, and the untold thousands of county residents who vote for them and pay their perks think and operate. After the fact litigation is the only way to counter them. Warning them in advance does nothing but improve their resistance to that correction and - looking you in the face - further convince themselves they’re right about you and the rest of us.

I wish none of this were true. But these are my neighbors. They are low information arrested development villains acting upon the world around them with a patronizing contempt they experience as virtue.

If the game is rigged and you don't play, they get to claim the game ISN'T rigged and there's no evidence to the contrary. You get a bunch of people testifying against something, at least they have to admit there was some opposition.

I've lived in MoCo for 15 years. I know all about the idiots who live here, and how fascist some of them really are. Doesn't matter to me.

Bob A said:

Sorry to read that that was you.

Did you really expect that anything you could have said would have changed one vote? None of those toads would risk alienating the local Karens by voting against that bill, no matter how useless and stupid it was.

Pointless excursions to testify against this crap will get you nothing. They do not care what you have to say. They are the functional equivalent of the MD GA, without the advantage of having a few reasonable members.

Over 4000 2A supporters testified in Annapolis in 2013; they still pushed their bill through, despite a showing that was easily 100 times larger than any other piece of legislation had ever produced.

They later destroyed the Handgun Permit Review Board, after slandering one of its former members as a flack for the firearms industry, and forcefully removing her from the hearing when she had the temerity to try to speak for more than two minutes. You'd have thought she would receive some small level of respect, but you'd have been wrong. They don't care what anybody says.


I take the position of non-compliance. It works in even worse places - NY "Safe Act" is ignored by 90% of the AR owners in the state, and nothing happened to them. The more people who ignore stupid legislation, the better.

I should probably state that I take my position out of disgust, not fear. I will no longer waste my time and energy in a futile attempt to change the minds of these politicians, because they will not listen, and they do not care what you or I have to say, unless it coincides with what they want to hear. That is much more the case in MoCo than Annapolis.

I expect the MD GA to contain even fewer Republicans after the next round of gerrymandering, now that the SCOTUS has given the state carte blanche to do more of what it does so well.

This state is nearly totally corrupt. If you want to make changes, you'll have to buy them by outbidding the Bloombergs and their ilk. Make no mistake, it would produce a bidding war that you would be hard pressed to win. Because in Maryland, legislators only listen to the money.

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Wow...talk about a severe case of BGOS.....

dblas said:

Wow...talk about a severe case of BGOS.....

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There are a few state legislators who DO care what we say, even they can't actually do anything on our behalf when the majority is in the mood to deny them any wiggle room.

But the issue here is the MoCo council, not the state legislature. Bob's right about the county politics. They really, really do not care what you have to say if you're not one of their financial backers. I've made multiple attempts to have conversations with them, since they work for me. They aren't even coy about it: "We know what the majority of our constituents want and we don't see any point wasting time on discussions about policy positions that aren't in the majority's interests." I've had multiple voice and email responses from county councilmembers that are variations on that exact message. They really, truly do not care what you say to them about anything if you're not a donor, but especially if it's something like 2A, on which their money people will not tolerate a single step out of line.

Occam said:

But the issue here is the MoCo council, not the state legislature. Bob's right about the county politics. They really, really do not care what you have to say if you're not one of their financial backers. I've made multiple attempts to have conversations with them, since they work for me. They aren't even coy about it: "We know what the majority of our constituents want and we don't see any point wasting time on discussions about policy positions that aren't in the majority's interests." I've had multiple voice and email responses from county councilmembers that are variations on that exact message. They really, truly do not care what you say to them about anything if you're not a donor, but especially if it's something like 2A, on which their money people will not tolerate a single step out of line.

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This is true. I've lived in MoCo almost continuously for over 50 years, and learned decades ago what Occam says. I still write the councilcritters on legislation I disagree with (2A things, some recent hijinks with hijacking agricultural land in The Reserve for solar panel farms, etc.) so they know that there are dissenting voices out here, but I never expect anything to change.

eta: it's also a truism that the council's donors are pretty strongly dominated by a few large real estate developers. What they want, they get.

A few more years and we'll be out of here, at this point it's not worth raising my blood pressure over.

If Maryland does like Virginia and makes changes to allow local firearm laws, look out. MoCo still has laws on the books that would automatically take affect.
Check out Court of Appeals in Montgomery County, Maryland, et al. v. Atlantic Guns, Inc., et al., 302 Md. 540, 489 A.2d 1114 (1985).
It requires Face-to-Face sales only of pistol ammunition and and a registration certificate of a pistol of the caliber ammunition being purchased.

dblas said:

Wow...talk about a severe case of BGOS.....

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You think?

Keep going back to the GA on your knees; they won't slap you around and bugger you this time, they promise!

.

That picture is so wrong. Makes me angry just looking at it.
I was raised in Moco and have watch it spiral down the Shute for years and years.

They know what is best for you and better then you do. They are smarter and more sophisticated then you understand and are here to help you from your ignorant self.

Bob A said:

You think?

Keep going back to the GA on your knees; they won't slap you around and bugger you this time, they promise!

.

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The only one on their knees are the ones that don't fight at every opportunity.

JakeAtStateFarm said:

im pretty sure those YoYo's in MoCo banned firing a airsoft gun at one point

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In fact, using a BB gun in your back yard in MoCo is no different, legally, than cutting loose with a 50 cal.

Because, you know, BBs. They’re almost as bad as pellet guns!