Recommend me a BP rifle

asaberan...

1.) Don't go to Fred's for anything! Their prices are probably the highest in the state, their customer service sucks, and they keep the MSP ammo log.
2.) Go to Dick's in the mall. They have a better selection than Fred's and are much cheaper. Bass Pro is also an option if you are willing to drive. Or like stated before you can order it from Basspro or Cabelas and have it delivered to your door with no FFL needed.

Encores are 4473 firearms, so please stop telling the man he can buy it without a dealer transfer.

Look for a lightly used tc omega. Great rifles and easy on the foldin money.

asaberan,

I, like you, wanted an Encore in the worst way. Saved up and finally bought one. Great gun, very accurate, easy to clean, etc. All I can say is don't buy it just for the switch barrel feature. Nothing wrong with the design and it works fine, but it is very expensive to add barrels to. I bought a Pro Hunter 270 bbl for my ml and by the time I put a semi-decent Burris on it with mounts, I was @ $700 with shipping costs. Neat concept and easy to swap stuff around, but it ain't cheap.

One quirk with the Encore design I could never get over is the ramrod mounting system. If you break open the Encore to prime/unprime, you have to tap the end of the ramrod to fully seat it in the gun after you close the barrel. It's not much, but everytime you break the gun, the ramrod is slightly pushed out. It will rattle and can fall out. Believe me, I know. I've lost two ramrods because I forgot to fully reseat them after priming the gun; once with the ml rifle and once with the 209x50 pistol.

At one time I had 4 Encore frames; 2 blue rifle frames, 1 SS pistol frame, and 1 blue pistol frame. Sold all of them, all the bbls, and bought an Omega. Best decision I ever made. Very accurate, no FFL, much easier (lighter) to carry, great trigger, better pure ml design.

Buy the Encore if you like it. It's a really nice gun. It is only really worth it's price, however, if you intend to use it with multiple bbls. For a dedicated muzzleloader, though, it's hard to beat the Omega.

I picked up a CVA Accura recently for $250. The Accura IIs are out so a lot of places are clearancing them. Mine was from MidwayUSA. I haven't shot it yet but it's nice looking and has a lot of good reviews.

Don

asaberan said:

I looked into the Savage, but I can get a regular Thompson Center Encore (no Pro Hunter or Endeavor, but still an Encore) for that and it doesn't seem to have any special features.

Click to expand...

Being a Savage owner, I find that funny.

The special features are
1. stainless barrel
2. shoot smokeless powder=less cleaning, no crud ring, no stinking powder smell(I have allergies)
3. Deadly accurate
4. No FFL needed (can buy online)
5. No trigger job needed-I own 2 encore handguns-both had to have trigger jobs done. search the net and you will find many who had trigger jobs done on the encore at their own expense.
(and if you ever have to send an encore back to the factory they undo the trigger job-return it to factory specs)
6.When I shoot my Savage muzzleloader at a deer I see where the deer drops or goes-not so with replacement bps. I have 2 ml barrels on my encore handguns I have had to wait to see what the results are on targets and the 1 deer I got. Not a major problem but a factor still.
7. Finally the opposite of no trigger job is that Savage has the Accu-trigger-try one and you'll understand what you will have to pay for when you buy and encore.

This...Listen to the man...Google Randy Wakeman's muzzleloading page and read for a few days..You will have many more reasons why the Savage is the superior ML over most if not all others out there now..Savage is on fire..

jbmabrey said:

The special features are
1. stainless barrel
2. shoot smokeless powder=less cleaning, no crud ring, no stinking powder smell(I have allergies)
3. Deadly accurate
4. No FFL needed (can buy online)
5. No trigger job needed-I own 2 encore handguns-both had to have trigger jobs done. search the net and you will find many who had trigger jobs done on the encore at their own expense.
(and if you ever have to send an encore back to the factory they undo the trigger job-return it to factory specs)
6.When I shoot my Savage muzzleloader at a deer I see where the deer drops or goes-not so with replacement bps. I have 2 ml barrels on my encore handguns I have had to wait to see what the results are on targets and the 1 deer I got. Not a major problem but a factor still.
7. Finally the opposite of no trigger job is that Savage has the Accu-trigger-try one and you'll understand what you will have to pay for when you buy and encore.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification. It seems like a really nice gun, but the price is steep. As I stated earlier, it is almost the same price as the Encore Endeavor (which I found online for $830) so I don't think I would pick the Savage over the T/C for the same price. It's more of an issue with the fact that I know two people with the T/C and it seems to be incredibly popular and not much bad to say out there.

haoleboy said:

asaberan...

1.) Don't go to Fred's for anything! Their prices are probably the highest in the state, their customer service sucks, and they keep the MSP ammo log.
2.) Go to Dick's in the mall. They have a better selection than Fred's and are much cheaper. Bass Pro is also an option if you are willing to drive. Or like stated before you can order it from Basspro or Cabelas and have it delivered to your door with no FFL needed.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know about Fred's. I've been in there a few times and they always kinda rub me the wrong way, it's hard to describe. My father in law has been going there for years and really likes the guys. I actually ended up talking to Fred the other day when I was there (pretty sure) and he claims he tried to lookup what my brother in law paid for his Encore in the computer system. He told me he didn't find it, but I think he did because he mentioned "driving up to Baltimore to get it is a pain" and my brother in law said he haggled the price by mentioning what Bass Pro was selling it for. Then as I was walking away, my mom said she heard him say "These people always try to get me to lower the prices" so I don't think he realized I had cash in my pocket to pay for it--or maybe he did and thought I'd just go for it since he was the only one local with it in stock.

I did actually go to Dick's right after Fred's and they only had three muzzleloaders on the shelf, all of which were lower models. I didn't really look at them because at the time I was looking for an Encore. I'm not sure what models they were, but I think two of them were inexpensive models and one might have been a Thompson/Center Impact, but I don't know for sure. I priced the Encore there and they had to special order it, but it was like within $10 of the price of Fred's.

armed ferret said:

Encores are 4473 firearms, so please stop telling the man he can buy it without a dealer transfer.

Look for a lightly used tc omega. Great rifles and easy on the foldin money.

Click to expand...

Yes, the models that can switch barrels definitely require FFL's, as I've verified with several dealers.

Bisleyfan44 said:

asaberan,

I, like you, wanted an Encore in the worst way. Saved up and finally bought one. Great gun, very accurate, easy to clean, etc. All I can say is don't buy it just for the switch barrel feature. Nothing wrong with the design and it works fine, but it is very expensive to add barrels to. I bought a Pro Hunter 270 bbl for my ml and by the time I put a semi-decent Burris on it with mounts, I was @ $700 with shipping costs. Neat concept and easy to swap stuff around, but it ain't cheap.

One quirk with the Encore design I could never get over is the ramrod mounting system. If you break open the Encore to prime/unprime, you have to tap the end of the ramrod to fully seat it in the gun after you close the barrel. It's not much, but everytime you break the gun, the ramrod is slightly pushed out. It will rattle and can fall out. Believe me, I know. I've lost two ramrods because I forgot to fully reseat them after priming the gun; once with the ml rifle and once with the 209x50 pistol.

At one time I had 4 Encore frames; 2 blue rifle frames, 1 SS pistol frame, and 1 blue pistol frame. Sold all of them, all the bbls, and bought an Omega. Best decision I ever made. Very accurate, no FFL, much easier (lighter) to carry, great trigger, better pure ml design.

Buy the Encore if you like it. It's a really nice gun. It is only really worth it's price, however, if you intend to use it with multiple bbls. For a dedicated muzzleloader, though, it's hard to beat the Omega.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the real-world experience. I've looked pretty heavily online and the most reviews on are Cabela's site, but I'm pretty sure they only allow positive reviews, because that's all that seems to be on there no matter what you look for.

I'm kinda thinking that the Encore and barrels are priced high enough to make it not worth it. $350-400 per barrel, plus additional optics for each barrel sort of price, on top of the $700-800 for the gun itself put me in the range that I could buy a decent muzzleloader, 12 gauge and a 17HMR rifle.

dlharsh said:

I picked up a CVA Accura recently for $250. The Accura IIs are out so a lot of places are clearancing them. Mine was from MidwayUSA. I haven't shot it yet but it's nice looking and has a lot of good reviews.

Don

Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll look into that as well. I'm worried about any CVA without a Bergara barrel though.

haoleboy said:

asaberan...

1.) Don't go to Fred's for anything! Their prices are probably the highest in the state, their customer service sucks, and they keep the MSP ammo log.
2.) Go to Dick's in the mall. They have a better selection than Fred's and are much cheaper. Bass Pro is also an option if you are willing to drive. Or like stated before you can order it from Basspro or Cabelas and have it delivered to your door with no FFL needed.

Click to expand...

Fred's - I can assure they are the cheapest in Southern Maryland.

Dick's ! ut oh, stand back, here I go... now I got issues with their customer service, talk about "sucks", I stood in line one day for almost 35 minutes to get some help, my was getting aggrevated that I was standing there that long and I told her I just want to see what how long it's gonna take one of these ding dongs to help me. Guess what, the guy that was in front of me grabbed his stuff and walked away from the counter and the sales idiot that was helping him, walks away from me, never said jack crap to me, I'll be right back or nothing, just full blown ignored me standing there. I asked someone for some help at the Lodge and the girl said just a minute, well, 5 minutes later the girl comes back and says the salesman will be right back he just went on break, I was like you gotta be Fing kidding me ! I had already wasted 45 minutes waiting and this is not the first, second, or ??? times I've gone in there, but, I give them guys no more of my money. I go to Fred's and I'm always helped right away and they at least tell me they'll be right back. As far as Dick's is concerned in the mall, their hunting Lodge proves their success, anyone notice it has once again be down sized by 50% ???? Or the fact that their Lodge employees are different every time you go in there???? Does anyone notice how they walk right past you like you are wearing an invisible cloak????? LOL... Dicks !

asaberan said:

Thanks for the clarification. It seems like a really nice gun, but the price is steep. As I stated earlier, it is almost the same price as the Encore Endeavor (which I found online for $830) so I don't think I would pick the Savage over the T/C for the same price. It's more of an issue with the fact that I know two people with the T/C and it seems to be incredibly popular and not much bad to say out there.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't pay $830 for a Savage either. There are plenty available for less than $600, synthetic stock. The wood stock should be about $100 more.

asaberan said:

Yeah, I don't know about Fred's. I've been in there a few times and they always kinda rub me the wrong way, it's hard to describe. My father in law has been going there for years and really likes the guys. I actually ended up talking to Fred the other day when I was there (pretty sure) and he claims he tried to lookup what my brother in law paid for his Encore in the computer system. He told me he didn't find it, but I think he did because he mentioned "driving up to Baltimore to get it is a pain" and my brother in law said he haggled the price by mentioning what Bass Pro was selling it for. Then as I was walking away, my mom said she heard him say "These people always try to get me to lower the prices" so I don't think he realized I had cash in my pocket to pay for it--or maybe he did and thought I'd just go for it since he was the only one local with it in stock.

Click to expand...

I can say in my own personal opinion is, the main differences between Fred's and Dick's is:

Fred's is an independently owned business
Dick's is a franchise

Fred's needs money to pay the bills
Dick's don't give a rats ass

Fred's runs a serious business as the owners
Dick's don't give a rats ass

Fred's don't have time to deal with idiots all day
Dick's they are bored and love the conversation

Fred's has personal finances invested in their inventory / stock
Dick's do I have to say it ?

You can not compare apples to oranges. If you want to compare Fred's with Accurate, or Tackle Box, or something independent like that, that's fine, but, you can not compare an independently owned business with a franchise.

Me personally, years ago I too was really put off by their, what appeared to be "bad attitudes" but, over the years I realized it's not that all, them guys are great to talk to, I have learned what anybody else should understand, them guys are there running a business to make money, they are not like Dick's where them guys get paid regardless if they sell or not. If you ask a question to the guys at Fred's, they usually know the answer. Dick's... clueless.

I won't argue with you that there are many valid reasons to buy at Fred's versus Dicks. The guy at Dicks (who I've never seen before and I've been there many times) really didn't give a damn if I ordered the gun (or bought anything really) and that is disappointing-though I will say the other guy who is there most of the time seems genuinely interested in firearms. Hopefully he still works there and was just off or something.

If you want to compare Fred's with Accurate, I will say that I had a great experience the one time I went to Accurate and did purchase a firearm there. I've also been to Tackle Box once and did not purchase anything, but they were helpful enough. Their prices seemed a little high though.

asaberan said:

I won't argue with you that there are many valid reasons to buy at Fred's versus Dicks. The guy at Dicks (who I've never seen before and I've been there many times) really didn't give a damn if I ordered the gun (or bought anything really) and that is disappointing-though I will say the other guy who is there most of the time seems genuinely interested in firearms. Hopefully he still works there and was just off or something.

Go back to this guy if he's there.

If you want to compare Fred's with Accurate, I will say that I had a great experience the one time I went to Accurate and did purchase a firearm there. I've also been to Tackle Box once and did not purchase anything, but they were helpful enough. Their prices seemed a little high though.

Click to expand...

The one thing I have learned about Tackle Box is, they will quote you the MSRP from the dealers website, so, if you want to know what they are going to tell you, just go look at the dealers website first, this seems to be their method for quoting gun prices, I don't even bother with them anymore, they are the highest around. I have called them several times over the years pricing guns and I stopped dealing with this Tom Bennet guy, he nevers call you back and his "ball park pricing" is odd for me. I' have never been to Accurate so I can not judge them, but, I hear good things about them. Between all of the local gun dealers around here I have always bought from Fred's because they have the price I want, the cheapest, I would go all the way to Tackle Box in Lexington Park if the price was right and that's over an hour away.

ok, once again, let's get back on topic and find this fella smoke pole.

Well, if he wants an Encore, I think he should stick with the regular Encore, or even the Pro-Hunter. I would not pay the huge markup for the additional features on the Endeavor.

To be honest, I considered an Encore, thinking to get a barrel to also have a single shot rifle in .45-70. But, once I realized I could get the Savage for much less, and didn't have to clean (scrub) it all the time, I went smokeless. Now I shoot .45-70 (.458 cal) 300 grain bullets @ 2050 fps out of the Savage!

IndispensableDestiny said:

Well, if he wants an Encore, I think he should stick with the regular Encore, or even the Pro-Hunter. I would not pay the huge markup for the additional features on the Endeavor.

To be honest, I considered an Encore, thinking to get a barrel to also have a single shot rifle in .45-70. But, once I realized I could get the Savage for much less, and didn't have to clean (scrub) it all the time, I went smokeless. Now I shoot .45-70 (.458 cal) 300 grain bullets @ 2050 fps out of the Savage!

Click to expand...

I think I'm leaning towards the Savage at this point and Accurate can order it for me.

Which Savage do you have? I only see 50 caliber on their site.

asaberan said:

I think I'm leaning towards the Savage at this point and Accurate can order it for me.

Which Savage do you have? I only see 50 caliber on their site.

Click to expand...

They only make a .50 cal. Some people buy after market barrels in .45 cal.

I have the stainless, composite stock version. I bought it on Gun Broker, new, for about $560.00.

Note that when you go smokeless, you need to weigh your charges. Some people use a Lee powder scoop, and go off of what a certain volume of a given powder should weigh. I weigh each of mine.

Sportsmans Guide has most of the MLs you are talking about for half the price.

i have a savage and would recomend it to anyone. mine is stainless with laminated stock. topped with nikon 4-14 mildot. you can figure the drop and use the mildot

asaberan said:

I think I'm leaning towards the Savage at this point and Accurate can order it for me.

Which Savage do you have? I only see 50 caliber on their site.

Click to expand...

Go here and scroll down to find all you will ever need to know about Savage http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?


also Randy Wakeman writes about and sells Savages
http://randywakeman.com/savage3.htm

2011 Savage 10ML-II SS/LAM AccutriggerThumbhole: $765 + 30 SHI
at http://randywakeman.com/savage0.htm

You cannot go wrong with a savage.

bigjohn said:

i have a savage and would recomend it to anyone. mine is stainless with laminated stock. topped with nikon 4-14 mildot. you can figure the drop and use the mildot

Click to expand...

I have to tell you. It is a sweet looking gun and I prefer the thumbhole stocks with laminated woods on everything. I was 1 step away from ordering one, but, I just could not justify the cost for deer hunting when there are so many cheaper options out there that do the same thing. Every time I see a photo of one, I start slobbering again LOL Really nice guns for accuracy and bling options, but, I just can not bring myself to do it yet.