National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Bill question

Pope414 · Dec 7, 2016

I don't know if this was addressed if it was I'm sorry. With the talk now of a new push by Rep. Richard Hudson (R-NC) for a ccw reciprocity bill my question is if signed by president trump how would that effect the "may issue " (no issue really) states like Maryland,New Jersey,New York ect. Say for example a New Jersey resident with a non resident Florida and Utah permits. Legally would the n.j resident be banned from carrying in their home state because n.j's justfiable need is impossible making a n.j ccw impossible. But the would be able to carry anywhere else in the United States and all non residents of n.j would be legal in n.j? .... I know it sounds confusing could any of our legal eagles explain this. Thanks

Inigoes · Dec 7, 2016

https://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=203060

Minuteman · Dec 7, 2016

No worries, I see you are a new member. Welcome!

This has been discussed in the National Reciprocity thread, someone will post it here, if you can't find it.

I'm not closely tracking this issue anymore, not since it was dropped last time; but now looking much better again with Trump!

I think if it does pass (good chance), it will basicially make it so your state permit will be accepted by all other states; but will each state can still make it's own laws, that will apply more equally to all. Just like speed limits, or how they enforce offenses, etc.

Inigoes · Dec 7, 2016

The topic is getting some press on Fox Business

http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics...on-trump-to-push-new-concealed-carry-law.html

Pope414 · Dec 7, 2016

Thanks. Sorry I didn't realize it was addressed. It seems pretty convoluted that residents would be banned from carrying in their own state while nonresidents would be free to. Like I was saying New Jersey justifiable need is only attained if you were murdered, then you have a justifiable need but then you don't need it anymore ??? It seems like the only hope for justifible need states is a case like perulta v. San deigo going to the SCOTUS

press1280 · Dec 8, 2016

Pope414 said:
I don't know if this was addressed if it was I'm sorry. With the talk now of a new push by Rep. Richard Hudson (R-NC) for a ccw reciprocity bill my question is if signed by president trump how would that effect the "may issue " (no issue really) states like Maryland,New Jersey,New York ect. Say for example a New Jersey resident with a non resident Florida and Utah permits. Legally would the n.j resident be banned from carrying in their home state because n.j's justfiable need is impossible making a n.j ccw impossible. But the would be able to carry anywhere else in the United States and all non residents of n.j would be legal in n.j? .... I know it sounds confusing could any of our legal eagles explain this. Thanks

In a nutshell you're correct how this bill is supposed to work.

swinokur · Dec 8, 2016

Howard approves.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2016/11/21/howard-stern-backs-national-reciprocity-americ/

DanGuy48 · Dec 11, 2016

Pope414 said:
Thanks. Sorry I didn't realize it was addressed. It seems pretty convoluted that residents would be banned from carrying in their own state while nonresidents would be free to. Like I was saying New Jersey justifiable need is only attained if you were murdered, then you have a justifiable need but then you don't need it anymore ??? It seems like the only hope for justifible need states is a case like perulta v. San deigo going to the SCOTUS

I don't see either how Maryland could continue to prohibit its own citizens from carrying when citizens of other states can walk in freely and carry and they are no more entitled than Maryland's own residents. IANAL but sheesh, it seems to me that would be a good basis for a lawsuit.

swinokur · Dec 11, 2016

The 10A and the 14A along with Article IV can duke it out. I see it as a win if the 10A argument loses.

Brooklyn will disagree.

press1280 · Dec 11, 2016

DanGuy48 said:
I don't see either how Maryland could continue to prohibit its own citizens from carrying when citizens of other states can walk in freely and carry and they are no more entitled than Maryland's own residents. IANAL but sheesh, it seems to me that would be a good basis for a lawsuit.

The question I ask when this comes up is, who do you file a lawsuit against? MD will say they have no part of it(which they'd be correct), the Federal government will say this only regulates non-residents' permits (IOW go sue MD for shall-issue permits).

IANAL but I'd like to hear exactly how such a scenario could work.

swinokur · Dec 11, 2016

Again, IMO I think it depends on the way the legislation is written. If the Feds allow carry in home states on another state's permit, I'd look for a 10A challenge by MD against the Feds.

But IANAL or Brooklyn

Kharn · Dec 11, 2016

swinokur said:
The 10A and the 14A along with Article IV can duke it out. I see it as a win if the 10A argument loses.

Brooklyn will disagree.

If it's written based on the coerce clause, the 10th would control, if written about privileges and immunities, citing Dred Scott's "arms wherever they went," then 2nd and 14th would control.

CrueChief · Dec 11, 2016

DanGuy48 said:
I don't see either how Maryland could continue to prohibit its own citizens from carrying when citizens of other states can walk in freely and carry and they are no more entitled than Maryland's own residents. IANAL but sheesh, it seems to me that would be a good basis for a lawsuit.

I have you heard the folks in the MGA speak on citizen carry?? :mad54:

swinokur · Dec 11, 2016

As I stated, it will totally depend on the language of the bill. I'm guessing they will not want a 10A fight and remove the ANY PERMIT language from the bill, preserving MD's right to continue to infringe on MD resident's rights while allowing non residents to carry. Then MD will be ripe for a 14A challenge if the MGA doesn't cave first and remove G&S as a requirent for a W&C permit.

Interesting times coming fellas and ladies.

DanGuy48 · Dec 11, 2016

CrueChief said:
I have you heard the folks in the MGA speak on citizen carry??

Not lately...I probably couldn't stomach it.

swinokur · Dec 11, 2016

they better get used to some citizens carrying. It's coming-and soon.

rambling_one · Dec 11, 2016

DanGuy48 said:
I don't see either how Maryland could continue to prohibit its own citizens from carrying when citizens of other states can walk in freely and carry and they are no more entitled than Maryland's own residents. IANAL but sheesh, it seems to me that would be a good basis for a lawsuit.

Think of it as LEOSA on steroids.

CrueChief · Dec 12, 2016

swinokur said:
they better get used to some citizens carrying. It's coming-and soon.

You guys keep talking like this and mike and mike are going to need to spend some quality time in their darkened safe space. :innocent0

swinokur · Dec 12, 2016

IMO, National reciprocity is all but certain. While we may not do it here initially, M&M are gonna cry when out of staters start carrying with no blood running down the streets.

Their anguished cries will be like music to my ears.

rmiddle · Dec 12, 2016

Pope414 said:
I don't know if this was addressed if it was I'm sorry. With the talk now of a new push by Rep. Richard Hudson (R-NC) for a ccw reciprocity bill my question is if signed by president trump how would that effect the "may issue " (no issue really) states like Maryland,New Jersey,New York ect. Say for example a New Jersey resident with a non resident Florida and Utah permits. Legally would the n.j resident be banned from carrying in their home state because n.j's justfiable need is impossible making a n.j ccw impossible. But the would be able to carry anywhere else in the United States and all non residents of n.j would be legal in n.j? .... I know it sounds confusing could any of our legal eagles explain this. Thanks

More likely once National Reciprocity is passed. All the out of state permits go away. It would help people like me who live in Shall issue states but hurt people living in states like MD, NY, and NJ. Also there are lots of questions if area's will just ignore the law. Think FOPA it is supposed to protect people carry weapons across state lines but NJ and New York City pretty much ignore it. Depending on how the law is written I could easily see those places ignoring the CCW rights of people and arresting them and making them prove themselves not guilty same as they are doing now with people properly carrying under FOPA standards.

Thanks
Robert

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