Recommended "MD-compliant" AR

MacGyverS2000 · Oct 25, 2020

I started a thread on the FN forums as I have been looking at picking up a SCAR 16S for some time now... since the 16S is currently out of production until they get their US factories retooled with the dies from Belgium, I'm trying to round up suggestions for a "temporary" replacement. Unfortunately, MD law about HBAR/"heavy" listings on the barrel has tripped me up on the few options I was interested in (Daniel Defense, Geissele, etc.). If it's legal and I like it, it seems to be out of stock (and vice versa).

Since MD laws have stymied me lately, I figured what better place to ask what DOES work is a shop filled with fellow MDers. So, suggestions?

Here's a general list of wants/desires/needs:
Use: Self-defense, range plinking... no hunting or competition (other than always trying to beat my own stats from last time)
Price: $2-4k, though I have no issues going higher for a quality piece (I refuse to pay premiums, however, so $4k for a SCAR 16S because it's the "last one left" is a non-starter)
Chamber: 5.56/.223
Barrel: 16-18" (shorter preferred), coating? (I would trade minor accuracy for longevity/durability... chromed, maybe?)
Rifling: 1:9 (seems to be standard... interested if 1:8 or 1:7 is selectable on certain models without ordering "extra" barrels)
Handguard: Free-floating (preferred)
Rails: M-LOK (preferred... scope will be added immediately)
Carrier Group: Piston (preferred over DI)

After narrowing things down to (perceived) quality pieces I was looking at the Daniel Defense DDM4 V7 but it's out of stock (the Pro is in stock one or two places, but that's an 18" barrel and more of a comp. gun), and evidently they changed to a lighter S2W barrel that's non-compliant. I was also looking at the 16" Geiselle Super Duty, but Geiselle seems to be backing off on selling in MD due to the vague rules.

Someone please help me end this insanity and find a high-quality rifle that I can actually own here in MD!

erwos · Oct 25, 2020

This is what you want:
https://www.primaryarms.com/geissele-automatics-super-duty-rifle-black-16.25-08-188b

Advertised specifically as having a "heavy profile" barrel. Kudos on not just buying a trash tier rifle and being willing to spend the money on something nice.

Another baller option is a KAC SR15 Mod2, which is in no way 100% parts compatible with a standard AR.

Mightydog · Oct 25, 2020

Welcome to MDS! Now introduce yourself.

MacGyverS2000 · Oct 25, 2020

erwos said:
This is what you want:
https://www.primaryarms.com/geissele-automatics-super-duty-rifle-black-16.25-08-188b

Advertised specifically as having a "heavy profile" barrel. Kudos on not just buying a trash tier rifle and being willing to spend the money on something nice.

Another baller option is a KAC SR15 Mod2, which is in no way 100% parts compatible with a standard AR.

erwos, this isn't the first time someone has pointed me to Primary Arms... but since they're in TX, can you confirm shipping to MD won't be an issue? I've seen more than one thread that says Geissele isn't having it, and I sent Geiselle an email directly earlier today. Their advertising doesn't say "heavy" or MBAR anywhere, which seems to be the limiting factor at play.

Jub · Oct 25, 2020

I am a new member and am going through the process of purchasing my first firearm. I had initially planned to build a BCM AR but as I researched more, I realized how difficult that would be in Maryland, especially without an HQL. That combined with some critical dates potentially coming up (Nov. 3rd) for 2A legislation, I decided to buy an existing rifle. I wanted a high-end AR and stumbled into the company LWRCI, based in Maryland. I've seen them compared to Daniel Defense, BCM, and rifles of that class. As far as I've gathered, the core of their brand is the piston based AR platform. In the last few years, they've released a DI equivalent as well. They seem to have sympathy for MDers, being based in Cambridge. Their flagship offerings are primarily HBAR classed 16ers with fluted barrels, made in house. I purchased a DI M-Lok model from Black Anchor Armory (Denton, MD) which should be coming in some time this week. Black Anchor also has a Piston version available, though it is with LWRCI's proprietary rail system instead of an M-Lok handguard. I did not ask for info about the Piston version's expected delivery date or anything else. It may also break your rule about not overpaying, as the list price was a bit higher than what I've seen the DI offered for elsewhere.

Either way, you may want to look into LWRCI rifles as they seem to fit the bill here perfectly for a piston based, high quality, MD legal AR within your price range. Black Anchor Armory has been responsive to my inquiries and has an allotment available for purchase. It's an easy route to go and the supply and demand equation is all out of whack currently.

Jub · Oct 25, 2020

MacGyverS2000 said:
erwos, this isn't the first time someone has pointed me to Primary Arms... but since they're in TX, can you confirm shipping to MD won't be an issue? I've seen more than one thread that says Geissele isn't having it, and I sent Geiselle an email directly earlier today. Their advertising doesn't say "heavy" or MBAR anywhere, which seems to be the limiting factor at play.

I have no comments on shipping to MD but the first feature of that listing is:

- 16” cold hammer forged heavy profile barrel

MacGyverS2000 · Oct 25, 2020

Jub said:
I have no comments on shipping to MD but the first feature of that listing is:

- 16” cold hammer forged heavy profile barrel

Erk :-( No idea how I missed that (even with my browser's text search function in play)... good catch, Jub.

Jed195 · Oct 25, 2020

IWI Zion 15 is on PSA's website on sale for 899. Advertised as HB.

erwos · Oct 25, 2020

MacGyverS2000 said:
erwos, this isn't the first time someone has pointed me to Primary Arms... but since they're in TX, can you confirm shipping to MD won't be an issue? I've seen more than one thread that says Geissele isn't having it, and I sent Geiselle an email directly earlier today. Their advertising doesn't say "heavy" or MBAR anywhere, which seems to be the limiting factor at play.

Unless they say they won't ship to MD, you're good to go. Just make sure the receiving FFL agrees with your take on the situation before you buy it.

The IWI ZION-15 is another excellent choice, but the MSP have erroneously listed it as a copy of an enumerated weapon, so you'd need to fix that problem first (or find an FFL who would ignore the list, which they should in this case).

MacGyverS2000 · Oct 27, 2020

I wanted to say thank you to everyone who put in their two cents. I ended up ordering the 16" Geissele Super Duty from Primary Arms and had it transferred to my local FFL. Assuming there are no issues, I hope to have it in my hands within the next two weeks.

Anything I should be aware of, such as paperwork I need to do ahead of time or is it as simple as going to the FFL when they call, flash my HQL, and picking it up after a few signatures?

If this transaction goes well, I imagine I will be ordering a few more toys in the coming months...

SkiPatrolDude · Oct 27, 2020

Excellent choice man congrats.

Since it is a long gun, no HQL is needed. Once it is at your desired FFL it should be cash and carry after an instant NICS check and the FFL's transfer fee. Do make sure you have your DL with you and that your address is current.

Also, always worth checking with the FFL to see if they can order it direct from their distributor. I've sometimes saved a few bucks this way, plus the local FFL gets the sale. No harm in ordering online, but just my 0.02 for future purchases.

MaicoBill · Oct 27, 2020

erwos said:
This is what you want:
https://www.primaryarms.com/geissele-automatics-super-duty-rifle-black-16.25-08-188b

Advertised specifically as having a "heavy profile" barrel. Kudos on not just buying a trash tier rifle and being willing to spend the money on something nice.

Another baller option is a KAC SR15 Mod2, which is in no way 100% parts compatible with a standard AR.

Plus 1 on the KAC. I just took possession of 1. From what i have read, great gun.

danb · Oct 27, 2020

MacGyverS2000 said:
I wanted to say thank you to everyone who put in their two cents. I ended up ordering the 16" Geissele Super Duty from Primary Arms and had it transferred to my local FFL. Assuming there are no issues, I hope to have it in my hands within the next two weeks.

Anything I should be aware of, such as paperwork I need to do ahead of time or is it as simple as going to the FFL when they call, flash my HQL, and picking it up after a few signatures?

If this transaction goes well, I imagine I will be ordering a few more toys in the coming months...

There is no HQL needed for a rifle (yet, lol). Federal 4473 only for this.

The only thing to be aware of is that 223/556 ammo is ridiculously scarce, lol.

Its a very nice rifle!

calicojack · Oct 27, 2020

Here you go; a Windham Weaponry Dissipator Heavy Barrel. It is in stock as of this moment.

https://atlanticfirearms.com/products/windham-weaponry-r16da4t-848037036339

JohnnyE · Oct 27, 2020

MacGyverS2000 said:
I wanted to say thank you to everyone who put in their two cents. I ended up ordering the 16" Geissele Super Duty from Primary Arms and had it transferred to my local FFL. Assuming there are no issues, I hope to have it in my hands within the next two weeks.

Anything I should be aware of, such as paperwork I need to do ahead of time or is it as simple as going to the FFL when they call, flash my HQL, and picking it up after a few signatures?

If this transaction goes well, I imagine I will be ordering a few more toys in the coming months...

IDK where you're located, but Engage Armament in Rockville is a homegrown Maryland AR manufacturer, and I, personally, choose to send my hard-earned $$$ to local folks rather send money elsewhere. The gang at Engage is very active lobbying Annapolis in support of our 2A cause. You may wish to consider that as well when you vote with your dollars.

calicojack · Oct 27, 2020

JohnnyE said:
IDK where you're located, but Engage Armament in Rockville is a homegrown Maryland AR manufacturer, and I, personally, choose to send my hard-earned $$$ to local folks rather send money elsewhere. The gang at Engage is very active lobbying Annapolis in support of our 2A cause. You may wish to consider that as well when you vote with your dollars.

Yes

MacGyverS2000 · Oct 29, 2020

Ack, sorry guys... I refreshed the page from time to time, but I always say my "thank you" reply at the bottom and assumed no one else posted. I didn't realize page 2 had started right after that post.

Interesting you say no HQL is necessary... the last time I went into this place and asked about purchasing a SCAR, they asked if I had an HQL. When I replied "no" (didn't have it at that time), they basically said the rest of the conversation was a non-starter. Guess that put it into my head I needed it. Since that time, I have received my HQL, and my Concealed Carry is in process.

I did ask the FFL if they carried Geissele, but once I received a "no" (and they did ask me if the rifle was listed as having a heavy barrel), I hopped on the Primary Arms site and ordered it.

Johnny, I wasn't aware of Engage Armament, but I will certainly look them up once this initial purchase is settled. I was never much of a conspiracy theorist or "gun nut", but after seeing all of the hoops I have to jump through (and weird/vague rules I have to follow) just to purchase something, I'm beginning to see why people lobby so hard :rolleyes:

Oh, and BTW... as I just posted in another forum:

I ordered mid-day Tuesday with 2-day air, and PA website says FFL transfer orders take (approximately) 7 days to process... but they shipped it the next day. It's scheduled to arrive at my local FFL tomorrow Considering this is my first purchase in such a manner, I'm crossing my fingers everything goes smoothly. My previous handgun purchases were walking up to the counter, pointing to the desired choice behind the glass, and then proceed to dickering on price. Never done anything "remotely" like this (no pun intended).

This should satiate my thirst for a few weeks (days?) before I start craving the SCAR again... now I need to look at accessories

gremlin42 · Oct 29, 2020

That Geissele looks nice, been following this thread and thinking about a Christmas present for myself. But also curious about Engage - I don't see a lot of info on getting an E4 made. Anyone know what the process and turn time are like for getting something built at Engage?

rockstarr · Oct 29, 2020

Last I checked the geissele super duty rifles were government profile, not heavy barrels. Anyone else see that or have I missed something ?

rbird7282 · Oct 29, 2020

MacGyverS2000 said:
Ack, sorry guys... I refreshed the page from time to time, but I always say my "thank you" reply at the bottom and assumed no one else posted. I didn't realize page 2 had started right after that post.

Interesting you say no HQL is necessary... the last time I went into this place and asked about purchasing a SCAR, they asked if I had an HQL. When I replied "no" (didn't have it at that time), they basically said the rest of the conversation was a non-starter. Guess that put it into my head I needed it. Since that time, I have received my HQL, and my Concealed Carry is in process.

I did ask the FFL if they carried Geissele, but once I received a "no" (and they did ask me if the rifle was listed as having a heavy barrel), I hopped on the Primary Arms site and ordered it.

Johnny, I wasn't aware of Engage Armament, but I will certainly look them up once this initial purchase is settled. I was never much of a conspiracy theorist or "gun nut", but after seeing all of the hoops I have to jump through (and weird/vague rules I have to follow) just to purchase something, I'm beginning to see why people lobby so hard

Oh, and BTW... as I just posted in another forum:

Any dealer who is asking for an HQL when you're looking at a SCAR should not get any business from you (or anyone else)

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