MD resident with handgun in MD using at range in PA?

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  • backstab

    Member
    Jan 19, 2012
    1
    I live in MD and might get a gun soon and have a friend who lives near York, PA. What are the laws regarding bring a gun from MD into PA to go shooting at a range up there? Do I need to do/be aware of anything?
     

    flying_pig

    Banned
    BANNED!!!
    Feb 2, 2013
    288
    You need to read the transportation laws and adhere to them. Separation of ammo and gun, gun in case, best kept in trunk etc... If you search this forum you should find the transport laws and links to them.
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    When transporting in MD keep it unloaded in locked case and ammo in seperate part of vehicle. When you get into PA you can open carry it if you like. You also could get a non-res PA CCP(fairly easy to get) or one of the other states that have reciprocity with PA(Utah, also fairly easy to get)) and then when you get across the state line you can just holster it on your belt concealed.
     

    Chris

    Ultimate Member
    Industry Partner
    Jun 21, 2005
    2,128
    Cecil Co, Maryland
    You also could get a non-res PA CCP(fairly easy to get) or one of the other states that have reciprocity with PA(Utah, also fairly easy to get)) and then when you get across the state line you can just holster it on your belt concealed.

    PA Carry Permit rules have been changed, they are not issuing permit unless you have a resident State permit. Utah is the way to go. Chris
     

    racer79

    n00b
    Jan 24, 2013
    157
    Northern MD
    I live in MD and might get a gun soon ...

    Haha...made me laugh...I'm on day 30 of my 7 days (unless you get a long gun...i know)

    From what I understand, pa doesn't issue a non-res unless you have a permit in your own state:

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses
    ...
    (e)(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:
    ...
    (ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).
     

    jonnyl

    Ultimate Member
    Sep 23, 2009
    5,969
    Frederick
    Note: you do not need a carry permit to go to the range. That's a completely separate topic.

    You should research both MD and PA transport laws, then decide on a transport method that at a minimum meets the more restrictive of the two.

    Much of the advice in this thread is overkill for MD, which is good.

    Research the carry permit, it's a good thing to have. You just don't need it to go to the range.
     

    Right2Carry

    Active Member
    Feb 27, 2009
    695
    District 32
    I live in MD and might get a gun soon and have a friend who lives near York, PA. What are the laws regarding bring a gun from MD into PA to go shooting at a range up there? Do I need to do/be aware of anything?

    If you can, I suggest you move in with your friend in PA. Change your mailing address to PA. After you get your PA driver's license, just stop in at any gun shop and purchase your gun. Then, you and your friend can go to the range the very next day.

    This should take you about 30 days, and would beat the MSP paperwork fiasco.

    Oh, if you wish, you can keep the apartment in MD. Just be sure to stay at your friend’s house about 1 weekend a month to pick up any "official" mail.
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,234
    Carroll County
    Strictly speaking, Maryland doesn't require that the pistol be locked in the trunk separate from ammo (although it is not a bad idea), just that the unloaded handgun be in "a case or enclosed holster", whatever that is.

    But when you cross state lines, federal law comes into play, and I believe the Feds do indeed specify the gun be locked in the trunk. Just lock it in the trunk, ammo separate, and don't get pulled over.

    Someone mentioned Open Carry is legal in Pa. Don't do it without checking the law first. You do not need a License to Carry Firearms (LTCF = Pennsylvania Carry Permit) to Open Carry on foot , except in Philadelphia. But you do need an LTCF to Open Carry in a vehicle.

    Even cruising around with the unloaded pistol in the trunk, an LTCF is handy, because it exempts you from Pennsylvania's requirement that you transport the pistol more-or-less to and from the range, etc. To clarify, you do not need a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms to take your pistol to the range in Pennsylvania, but it would give you extra legal protection if you go shopping, to a restaurant, or just take a long drive with the pistol in the car with you. It also allows you to wear the pistol holstered on your belt while driving, or carry it concealed while shopping, eating, or sightseeing. An LTCF is a good thing to have,

    But Pennsylvania will not issue you an LTCF unless you already have a Maryland (Concealed) Handgun Permit, which is still almost impossible to get. However, Pennsylvania does recognize Permits issued by many other states, some of which are easy for Marylanders to get.

    Probably the easiest non-resident Carry Permits for Marylanders to get are Florida, Virginia, Utah, and Arizona. Just within the past couple weeks, the Bloomberg-bankrolled AG of Pennsylvania announced that Florida Concealed Weapons Permits will no longer be honored in Pennsylvania. At least for the time being, the Virginia, Utah, and Arizona permits are still valid as LTCFs however. The Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) is the easiest to get, and is valid in every state bordering on Maryland.


    That is way more information than you need, and I hope I didn't confuse you. I wanted to clear up some of the earlier statements in this thread.

    To repeat, lock it in the trunk. Ammo separate. Don't get pulled over. If you see me at one of the pistol shoots at Delta or York Isaac Walton, say hi. You'll see lots of Marylanders at both clubs.



    Pennsylvania Transport Information:

    Are there exceptions to carrying a firearm without a Pennsylvania License to Carry?

    Listed below are exceptions as outlined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6106. (2) (b) Exceptions:

    ...

    4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with rifle, pistol, or revolver, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/porta...jID=4451&&PageID=462424&level=2&css=L2&mode=2

    More Pennsylvania Info:

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf



    How to get a Virginia CHP (which Pennsylvania honors as an LTCF):

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_NonresidentConcealed.shtm

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf


    The Utah permit requires a special training class, which is taught by several people in our area. http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=95926

    http://www.mdshooters.com/forumdisplay.php?f=118

    The Utah permit, like the Florida permit, is valid in about 30 - 35 states. Arizona is similar. See Handgunlaw.us for more information.


    See you at York Isaac Walton!
     

    Curmudgeon

    I H8 stinkbugz
    Sep 6, 2010
    331
    York, Pennsylvania
    A very good post, and I've made a few corrections shown in red...


    Strictly speaking, Maryland doesn't require that the pistol be locked in the trunk separate from ammo (although it is not a bad idea), just that the unloaded handgun be in "a case or enclosed holster", whatever that is.

    But when you cross state lines, federal law comes into play, and I believe the Feds do indeed specify the gun be locked in the trunk. Just lock it in the trunk, ammo separate, and don't get pulled over.

    I don't believe FOPA comes into it because both MD and PA permit unloaded transport and the laws in each state are very similar (if not identical) so FOPA protections simply aren't required. Transport in a manner consistent with the laws of both states and you'll be fine.

    Someone mentioned Open Carry is legal in Pa. Don't do it without checking the law first. You do not need a License to Carry Firearms (LTCF = Pennsylvania Carry Permit) to Open Carry on foot, except in Philadelphia. But you do need an LTCF to Open Carry* in a vehicle.

    *Correct, but I would add that you cannot transport or carry a loaded handgun open or concealed by vehicle. You may transport a loaded handgun with a permit/license from any state, but it must be a reciprocal state for conceal carry.

    Even cruising around with the unloaded pistol in the trunk, an LTCF is handy, because it exempts you from Pennsylvania's requirement that you transport the pistol more-or-less to and from the range, etc. To clarify, you do not need a Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms to take your pistol to the range in Pennsylvania, but it would give you extra legal protection if you go shopping, to a restaurant, or just take a long drive with the pistol in the car with you. It also allows you to wear the pistol holstered on your belt while driving, or carry it concealed while shopping, eating, or sightseeing. An LTCF is a good thing to have,

    But Pennsylvania will not issue you an LTCF unless you already have a Maryland (Concealed) Handgun Permit, which is still almost impossible to get. However, Pennsylvania does recognize Permits issued by many other states, some of which are easy for Marylanders to get.

    Probably the easiest non-resident Carry Permits for Marylanders to get are Florida, Virginia, Utah, and Arizona. Just within the past couple weeks, the Bloomberg-bankrolled AG of Pennsylvania announced that Florida Concealed Weapons Permits will no longer be honored in Pennsylvania for non-residents of Florida. At least for the time being, the Virginia, Utah, and Arizona permits are still valid as LTCFs however. The Virginia Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) is the easiest to get, and is valid in every state bordering on Maryland.

    That is way more information than you need, and I hope I didn't confuse you. I wanted to clear up some of the earlier statements in this thread.

    To repeat, lock it in the trunk. Ammo separate. Don't get pulled over. If you see me at one of the pistol shoots at Delta or York Isaac Walton, say hi. You'll see lots of Marylanders at both clubs.



    Pennsylvania Transport Information:



    More Pennsylvania Info:

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf



    How to get a Virginia CHP (which Pennsylvania honors as an LTCF):

    http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_NonresidentConcealed.shtm

    http://handgunlaw.us/states/virginia.pdf


    The Utah permit requires a special training class, which is taught by several people in our area. http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=95926

    http://www.mdshooters.com/forumdisplay.php?f=118

    The Utah permit, like the Florida permit, is valid in about 30 - 35 states. Arizona is similar. See Handgunlaw.us for more information.


    See you at York Isaac Walton!

    :thumbsup: :D
    .
     

    Threeband

    The M1 Does My Talking
    MDS Supporter
    Dec 30, 2006
    25,234
    Carroll County
    I realize FOPA only applies if one drives through Pennsylvania to another state, but I think it may be required to be locked or inaccessible while crossing state lines in any case. Certainly neither Maryland nor Pennsylvania require it, but it's not a bad idea.

    I wanted to clarify that Open Carry without an LTCF is only legal on foot, and not in Philadelphia in any case. Open or Concealed, it needs to be unloaded in the vehicle.

    It looks like the Florida permit is still valid until June, but in any case, it's still valid in about 30 other states. It may be a good second permit, especially since it's the only one valid in Florida for Marylanders.

    All this LTCF talk goes way beyond the original question, but since the subject came up, I thought it best to clarify with official government sources.

    I do think an LTCF-equivalent, such as the Virginia CHP, would be a good idea should the OP go to a restaurant in York after leaving the range, even if his unloaded pistol is locked in the trunk.

    I wish I could get an LTCF that's valid in Maryland. Then I could take my gear to work with me, and stop at the range on my way home. I do that now with a rifle, but I can't with a pistol.
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    If you are not a PA resident, you cannot get a PA carry permit. However, PA still recognizes non-resident UT permits. Short version? Get a UT non-res permit.
    That's not correct. PA is still shall-issue to non-residents, but they require you to have a permit from your home state to have a non-res permit from them. There is also some issue of reciprocity that I think overrides this requirement. At one time some states held to this rule unless your home state did not share reciprocity with them. Then they would issue a non-res permit to you without having your home state permit. Since MD does not share reciprocity with anyone the non-res requirement did not affect MD residents from acquiring non-res permits. Maybe that has changed??????
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    Well I just read that PA link from Handgunlaw.US and it says that PA will not issue a non-res permit unless you do have a permit from your home state.
    It says- Note: You have to have a permit from your home state if your home state issues permits. Unless you are
    from Illinois, DC or Vermont you have to have a permit from your home state. If your state is too restrictive
    and won’t issue you a permit you cannot obtain a Non-Resident Pennsylvania Permit/License.
    Some
    Sheriff’s will not issue to non residents and/or have other stipulations to issue to non-residents. Check with
    the Sheriff’s Dept before you appear to apply.

    I think they put the part that I highlighted in bold in there just for us Marylanders. The funny part is that us MD residents will just have to use our non-res Utah permits to carry in PA. Is that a big cluster F*** or what?
     

    Mike3888

    Mike3888
    Feb 21, 2013
    1,125
    Dundalk, Md-Mifflin,Pa
    Pa

    I hear you heat seeker. I actually talked to the sheriff in mifflin county where I have property and pay taxes. I figured since I pay taxes what the heck I'll try for a permit. WRONG. It would have to be my permanent residence or have a Maryland permit. Just not right.
     

    Ab_Normal

    Ab_member
    Feb 2, 2010
    8,613
    Carroll County
    I hear you heat seeker. I actually talked to the sheriff in mifflin county where I have property and pay taxes. I figured since I pay taxes what the heck I'll try for a permit. WRONG. It would have to be my permanent residence or have a Maryland permit. Just not right.

    Then move to Miflin County and make Dundock your secondary residence.;)
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    I hear you heat seeker. I actually talked to the sheriff in mifflin county where I have property and pay taxes. I figured since I pay taxes what the heck I'll try for a permit. WRONG. It would have to be my permanent residence or have a Maryland permit. Just not right.
    They will still accept a non-res Utah and a couple others, but it seems that PA is on the way to becoming more restrictive about this. They did not always require a permit from your home state to issue a non-res permit. Not sure when that started.

    The answer to carrying in PA is to just open carry.
     

    smdub

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Nov 14, 2012
    4,644
    MoCo
    To add to the confusion: What if you have a car w/o a separate trunk (like a CRX hatchback), a tiny trunk (miata), or even a car w/o a trunk at all (lotus elise or motorcycle;))? I'm 100% certain that my new mosin's will NOT fit in the trunk of my car. Just too long. They had to ride 'shotgun' to get home;) I can fit the ammo in the trunk however.
     

    Curmudgeon

    I H8 stinkbugz
    Sep 6, 2010
    331
    York, Pennsylvania
    They will still accept a non-res Utah and a couple others, but it seems that PA is on the way to becoming more restrictive about this. They did not always require a permit from your home state to issue a non-res permit. Not sure when that started.

    The answer to carrying in PA is to just open carry.

    Please be careful with this. Without a permit/license from another state your transport restrictions are similar to Maryland's. You cannot legally drive somewhere and begin to open-carry unless your destination is one of the few listed exceptions, range, gun shop... like that. Just get a permit from a reciprocal state, makes life so much easier. ;)
    Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote, I'm just being careful and I hate the thought of good people getting caught up in one of our stupid restrictions. See below for statute, just for reference.

    To add to the confusion: What if you have a car w/o a separate trunk (like a CRX hatchback), a tiny trunk (miata), or even a car w/o a trunk at all (lotus elise or motorcycle;))? I'm 100% certain that my new mosin's will NOT fit in the trunk of my car. Just too long. They had to ride 'shotgun' to get home;) I can fit the ammo in the trunk however.

    I won't address Maryland's restrictions, but in PA a trunk is not required...

    18 Pa.C.S. § 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
    (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except
    in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has
    not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
    (b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
    ...
    (4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of
    assembly or target practice, the firearm is not **loaded.
    ...
    (8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a *secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back
    to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another
    or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property
    under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction
    intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which
    the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or
    back upon
    return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment
    pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale,
    lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for
    safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for
    safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

    http://www.pa2a.org/wiki.php?wid=23

    *We have never found a definition for "secure wrapper".

    **As for the definition of "NOT LOADED"...

    "Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or, in the case
    of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the
    case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for
    use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in
    the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment
    thereof as the firearm. If the magazine is inserted into a pouch, holder, holster or other protective
    device that provides for a complete and secure enclosure of the ammunition, then the pouch, holder,
    holster or other protective device shall be deemed to be a separate compartment.

    http://www.pa2a.org/wiki.php?wid=58


    Hope this helps! ;)
    .
     

    HeatSeeker

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 18, 2012
    3,058
    Maryland
    I understand what your saying, but I cannot find anything that would prohibit a person from transporting legally in MD and after crossing into PA open carrying. Open carry in PA does not require you to be actively going to a range or hunting, etc.
     

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