Gerald Ung incident in Philly

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  • alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    I'm surprised that no one has brought up the fact that this guy basically took a mag dump of 38 in the torso and it didn't immediately have much of an effect.

    Larger, Heavier projectiles have much greater stopping power with fewer rounds leaving a defender with the possibility/capability of dealing with the aggressors accomplices without the requirement to reload.

    38 is better than nothing but 45 is much more effective.

    It's all in what was struck, and how long incapacitation took, which may have been only a couple seconds in this case. There are plenty of bad guys walking the street now with more than 5 40 or 45 cal holes in them that had to be wrestled to the ground, and plenty in the morgue with a single 22 or 38 caliber hole that were dead before they hit the ground. Granted, a larger caliber is more likey to penetrate and incapacitate someone "faster", but unless the CNS is struck directly, they can still fight for at least a couple seconds, and possibly for much longer, and there are so many variables that come into play before caliber is considered, that it isn't entirely accurate to blame the caliber. In fact it did it's job, and stopped the threat in this case. Although if the others were as determined as the idiot that jumped Ung, a reload or more capacity could have come in handy.
     

    jaywade

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 2, 2009
    1,464
    Leesburg, VA
    i think the 5 shots "sobered up" his friends ..... I'd like to know what happend after shots fired, did th efirends back down, how soon was LEO's there?, did the shooter stick around, how did he give his gun to LEO's did he show his permit ect....
     

    jpk1md

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 13, 2007
    11,313
    Thats may be true but the likelyhood of hitting hitting critical/bad guy stopping parts with a hollow point 45 is MUCH greater than with a 38.

    The key is always to strive to not to let the BG get within reach.

    You've probably heard the following:
    Hangun is to keep a BG off your body
    Shotgun to to keep a BG out of your house
    Rifle to keep a BG off your property.
     

    alucard0822

    For great Justice
    Oct 29, 2007
    17,643
    PA
    i think the 5 shots "sobered up" his friends ..... I'd like to know what happend after shots fired, did th efirends back down, how soon was LEO's there?, did the shooter stick around, how did he give his gun to LEO's did he show his permit ect....

    Ung is the one that called the police, the other 2 assailants ran, Ung sat right there till the police came, handed them the gun and his ID/permit, then was arrested.
     

    Darkemp

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 18, 2009
    7,808
    Marylandistan
    I'm fortunate that I've never been victim of an attack, though I think my physical size has to do with that (6'7, 300 lbs. built like an offensive guard/ tackle in football). How this resolves will have to do with the situation of Ung, was he out drinking too (if so this will hurt his defense), as well as the testimony of his date. Any idiot who continues charging at a handgun at point blank range is just that, an idiot. Look at the situation in Baltimore City where JHU student Jon Pontolillo used the sword and mortally wounded the unarmed attacker. There were no charges as any idiot who continues attacking at a lethal weapon is easily identified as a threat and the defender is justified. Hopefully Philly finds the same just cause...
     

    badguyRL

    ~Sexy~ Junior Memeber
    May 24, 2009
    259
    Glen Burnie
    Wow, I found this article related to this case on a blog site which seems to get a decent amount of hits.
    http://lawiscool.com/2010/01/18/3l-suspected-in-philly-shooting/

    Apparently, if you take the time to read the small (1 paragraph long) blog about the incident, the only thing the author- who is obviously anti - takes the time to say is "this would not be the first time an Asian-American law student in Philadelphia has gone on a shooting spree." citing an incident in 2007 of another asian-american law student.

    Wow, its seems like there is very little difference for some people between an act of "self defense" and a "shooting rampage/spree".
     

    ToneGrail

    MSI, NRA, & SAF Member
    Dec 18, 2008
    1,397
    Towson, People's Republik of MD
    Nothing makes my blood boil more than a silver-spoon thug who is rich and well connected like DiDonato. Too bad Ung didn't lethally wound the Neanderthal. The world would be a better place.

    If DiDonato's uncle comes out in support of his scumbag nephew, he'll lose a ton of support among 2A Republican constituents.
     

    Fustercluck

    Active Member
    Aug 4, 2008
    776
    Eastern Shore
    Thats may be true but the likelyhood of hitting hitting critical/bad guy stopping parts with a hollow point 45 is MUCH greater than with a 38.

    That just simply isn't true (respectively speaking, of course) :). As others have pointed out, shot placement is the only thing that really matters in handgun shootings. Although you may end up killing more people with a 45, they won't die any faster from a shot to the liver, lung, or heart than someone shot with a 38. You can go astonishingly long periods of time after being fatally shot, if critical cns structures haven't been hit. I took a bullet out of the right atrium of a patient's heart, who had been shot with a 9mm. He died on the OR table, but he managed to live long enough (45 min) to stab another LEO, get cuffed, stuffed and transported to the hospital. Yes, it was a fatal gunshot wound, but don't tell that to the cop who got his left arm sliced with a kitchen knife. He also had bullet wounds to his liver and right lung, but we never got far enough with him to address those.
    You have to get the CNS damage to stop the victim in his/her tracks.
    Bullet diameter differences in pistols isn't that significant. The wound patterns you see in gelatin are mostly blast damage, which translates to more soft tissue damage, but blast damage won't have any effect on hardened structures like nerves. They need to be penetrated to incapacitate.
     

    Ethan83

    Ultimate Member
    Jan 8, 2009
    3,111
    Baltimoreish
    That just simply isn't true (respectively speaking, of course) :). As others have pointed out, shot placement is the only thing that really matters in handgun shootings. Although you may end up killing more people with a 45, they won't die any faster from a shot to the liver, lung, or heart than someone shot with a 38. You can go astonishingly long periods of time after being fatally shot, if critical cns structures haven't been hit. I took a bullet out of the right atrium of a patient's heart, who had been shot with a 9mm. He died on the OR table, but he managed to live long enough (45 min) to stab another LEO, get cuffed, stuffed and transported to the hospital. Yes, it was a fatal gunshot wound, but don't tell that to the cop who got his left arm sliced with a kitchen knife. He also had bullet wounds to his liver and right lung, but we never got far enough with him to address those.
    You have to get the CNS damage to stop the victim in his/her tracks.
    Bullet diameter differences in pistols isn't that significant. The wound patterns you see in gelatin are mostly blast damage, which translates to more soft tissue damage, but blast damage won't have any effect on hardened structures like nerves. They need to be penetrated to incapacitate.

    This has been basically my line of thinking - handgun rounds are so "low powered" compared to long guns that placement becomes so critical as to make other factors significantly less relevant. Sure, I've got an XD .45 on one side of the bed, but I also don't feel like the Bersa .380 on the other side is 'insufficient' at all. I take it you're a doctor - based on your experience, what's the smallest caliber you would/do carry? Is a .32 pocket gun a "bad idea" as some would say, or a perfectly reasonable compromise? History seems to lean towards the latter, imho.
     

    Fustercluck

    Active Member
    Aug 4, 2008
    776
    Eastern Shore
    This has been basically my line of thinking - handgun rounds are so "low powered" compared to long guns that placement becomes so critical as to make other factors significantly less relevant. Sure, I've got an XD .45 on one side of the bed, but I also don't feel like the Bersa .380 on the other side is 'insufficient' at all. I take it you're a doctor - based on your experience, what's the smallest caliber you would/do carry? Is a .32 pocket gun a "bad idea" as some would say, or a perfectly reasonable compromise? History seems to lean towards the latter, imho.

    I would still carry the largest caliber I could shoot comfortably and accurately and conceal adequately. Concealment properties being most important. In the winter I carry some form of .45 1911, when it's easy to conceal. In the Summer I carry a 9mm or, when cycling, a .38 snubby.
    Most of all, I practice with all of them. I don't shoot CDP at IDPA matches in the Summer, and I don't shoot a 9mm or .38 in the Fall-Spring. Then again, I don't try to win; I use it as the best training around for ccw.

    I wouldn't carry the minor calibers (32 and under), cuz good defensive ammo is lacking and they under-penetrate. .380 has some ammo currently available to make it a contender, but I admit I haver seen someone shot with one. Seen lots of .25 and .32 GSW's, otoh, and they are not very impressive outside the cranial vault.
     

    jaywade

    Ultimate Member
    Nov 2, 2009
    1,464
    Leesburg, VA
    I wouldn't carry the minor calibers (32 and under), cuz good defensive ammo is lacking and they under-penetrate. .380 has some ammo currently available to make it a contender, but I admit I haver seen someone shot with one. Seen lots of .25 and .32 GSW's, otoh, and they are not very impressive outside the cranial vault.

    do you consider 9mm okay for self defense casue of wound ability or overall round capacity ?

    myself to me the only reason I think 9mm is enough is the number of rounds you can/could carry .... if I was in Ung's shoes I would rather have a .40 or .45 as well however both give issues w/ abilty to CC casue of size, and a semi-auto might not of fire in a "grappling" encounter

    but no matter what we think is the best gun his did do the trick ...the assult was stopped and Ung's alive....now he has some legal issues but that's better than coffin or hosptial bed issues
     

    Nanook

    F-notso-NG-anymore
    do you consider 9mm okay for self defense casue of wound ability or overall round capacity ?

    myself to me the only reason I think 9mm is enough is the number of rounds you can/could carry .... if I was in Ung's shoes I would rather have a .40 or .45 as well however both give issues w/ abilty to CC casue of size, and a semi-auto might not of fire in a "grappling" encounter

    but no matter what we think is the best gun his did do the trick ...the assult was stopped and Ung's alive....now he has some legal issues but that's better than coffin or hosptial bed issues

    I feel for this dude. I really do. His fund will be getting some of my limited 'beer money'.

    I personally left behind the 'more 9mm or bigger .45' debate and picked up a RIA 1911A2. 14+1 in a time-proven and comfortable (to me) year-round platform. Para-Ord also makes these but for a bit more.
     

    smores

    Creepy-Ass Cracker
    Feb 27, 2007
    13,493
    Falls Church
    It's Filthadelphia, what did you expect? There's a guy at my school from there... he has some crazy super-embellished stories. Apparently he's well connected there. Always tells us how Philly laws are so different than the rest of the state. I don't know if all his stories are true, but he's a classic 1, 2 or 3 upper. I've never seen him not butt into a convo to best someone else's story yet...

    But hey. I hope this guy gets off the hook. Just goes to show what happens when you go up against someone with connections and/or money...
     

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