Utah, Florida CCW renewal after MD CCW denial

sbmike · Jun 12, 2015

I searched for this issue but couldn't come up with anything. I've currently got both a Utah and a FL non-resident CCW license. During a discussion with some shooter friends of mine the other day, one mentioned that my renewal for both licenses will be denied because I was one of the folks who applied for a MD CCW during the temporary reprieve because of the Woolard case verdict and I was ultimately denied, as were the vast majority of those who applied at that time who used self defense as their only justification. The reason I will supposedly be denied is that I will need to state on my renewal applications that I have been denied a CCW in my own state.

Any truth to this? If so, I, and likely quite a few others, shot ourselves in the proverbial foot both figuratively and literally.

HarCo2ANewb · Jun 13, 2015

Not from my understanding, the states in question only consider denials with proper cause, not arbitrary rulings, iirc, ianal, etc idk for sure

Gryphon · Jun 13, 2015

Every trainer I have spoken to has said this is absolutely not true. Plus, during a recent personal interview with a State Trooper, I was told that if you otherwise qualify, worst case you would be "not aproved" not "denied." Can't make this ch*t up, but I laughed and asked if that was really a difference and he said yes. Stupid as it sounds, check your old MSP letter and if it says Not Approved then as far as the MSP is concerned you were not denied. Denied means you have a disqualifying issue. Not approved just means they don't deem you worthy. If that isn't an admission of arbitrariness I don't know what is, but that's the MSP for you. Maybe Pallozzi will get around to fixing his broken agency. You wouldn't think cleaning stupid ch*t like this up would be that difficult or time consuming.

swinokur · Jun 13, 2015

I have renewed my NV,VA and UT NR permits since being denied after the 4 CA overturned Legg.

No problem at all. My FL permit is not up for renewal for another year.

I kept my MSP denial letter (original 365) and scanned a copy. If someone wants to know why I was denied in MD, I will include this letter, as it's administrative denial, not because I was disqualified for a real rerason.

Biggfoot44 · Jun 13, 2015

New Hampshire directly asks . Doesn't mean an automatic disaproval , just that you have to adress it.

At present a moot question , as currently they require home state permit. They have gone back and forth on that , and may well change again in the future.

Minuteman · Jun 13, 2015

Good question, great answers.

Short answer: No sir, it will be no problem.

Long answer: Years ago, when I attended my first IDPA Safety Officer class, a fellow (whom I later learned was an MSI Executive member; discussed this possible complication. At that time he too was concerned, but discovered that of his many non-resident permits from other states; only a couple even asked if he had ever been denied, and only one asked for an explanation. His "I live in Maryland" explination was sufficient. No problem.

swinokur · Jun 13, 2015

IIRC, the other states I have permits from didn't even ask the question.

DC-W · Jun 13, 2015

Minuteman said:
His "I live in Maryland" explination was sufficient. No problem.

To which whatever state replies, "oh, I'm sorry to here that."

Schipperke · Jun 13, 2015

Gryphon said:
Every trainer I have spoken to has said this is absolutely not true. Plus, during a recent personal interview with a State Trooper, I was told that if you otherwise qualify, worst case you would be "not aproved" not "denied." Can't make this ch*t up, but I laughed and asked if that was really a difference and he said yes. Stupid as it sounds, check your old MSP letter and if it says Not Approved then as far as the MSP is concerned you were not denied. Denied means you have a disqualifying issue. Not approved just means they don't deem you worthy. If that isn't an admission of arbitrariness I don't know what is, but that's the MSP for you. Maybe Pallozzi will get around to fixing his broken agency. You wouldn't think cleaning stupid ch*t like this up would be that difficult or time consuming.

Have you noticed when the papers come back for a handgun purchase it is stamped "Not Disapproved". Don't mess with a good attorney, English is their tool. What some find arbitrary in language, perhaps should just be accepted as a lesson. You give two fine definitions, nothing arbitrary there.

swinokur · Jun 13, 2015

I went and reread my MSP license letter and sure enough my license was disapproved, not denied. Importation distinction.as Gryphon noted.

Words are the lawyer's (and perhaps MSP) stock and trade.
.
.

Schipperke · Jun 13, 2015

So I guess when you apply to another state and they ask if your have ever been denied (Is that the language used?) your honest answer is "no"

swinokur · Jun 13, 2015

I would say you have not been denied. Important distinction, especially to a lawyer or LE.

:thumbsup:

Schipperke · Jun 13, 2015

When you look up the definitions of disapproved and denied, that is really cutting it thin. The state has a way of using semantics in it's own self interest, but will give John Doe the smack down for trying..

jmcgonig · Jun 13, 2015

Since we are on the subject, I applied also but never got a disapproved notice or any other notice that it was over. When they sent out the response to the appeals I sent them an email to "withdrawal" my application, but never got a response.

What's the best way to determine the ultimate state of my application from so long ago?

swinokur · Jun 13, 2015

well if you read my letter, it says I was disapproved for not meeting the criteria, not because of a disqualifying fact.

Important but distinct difference again. I agree all this could be open to interpretation, but I think if there was a disqualifying fact, it would have to be specifically noted by the issuing authority. ie convicted of a felony blah blah blah.

IANAL.

swinokur · Jun 13, 2015

jmcgonig said:
Since we are on the subject, I applied also but never got a disapproved notice or any other notice that it was over. When they sent out the response to the appeals I sent them an email to "withdrawal" my application, but never got a response.

What's the best way to determine the ultimate state of my application from so long ago?

I'd start with a phone call to MSP Licensing Division and see what they say.

Schipperke · Jun 13, 2015

jmcgonig said:
Since we are on the subject, I applied also but never got a disapproved notice or any other notice that it was over. When they sent out the response to the appeals I sent them an email to "withdrawal" my application, but never got a response.

What's the best way to determine the ultimate state of my application from so long ago?

swinokur · Jun 13, 2015

I wouldn't expect anything less from the Capt.

:lol2:

jmcgonig · Jun 13, 2015

Schipperke said:

That was my thought, just not sure what I should/will put on my renewal for Utah. Nothing, explanation, etc...

I'm too literal.

press1280 · Jun 13, 2015

FWIW-Maine didn't deny me after being denied by NJ for lack of "justifiable need". It specifically asks on the application.

Utah, Florida CCW renewal after MD CCW denial

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