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  • Rockzilla

    Ultimate Member
    Feb 6, 2010
    4,516
    55.751244 / 37.618423
    I gave away all the frames I bought. Thank God....

    you and me both... all i Had are gone....tried out the new Tig welder on Aluminum
    no workie... needed some filament for the printer so with the others...

    The "ride" has just begun....
    this ain't gonna play out well....


    -Rock
     

    davsco

    Ultimate Member
    Oct 21, 2010
    8,607
    Loudoun, VA
    doesn't atf fall under the purview of trump? why isn't he firing the head of atf like he's done with others throughout his organization?
     

    Fox123

    Ultimate Member
    May 21, 2012
    3,926
    Rosedale, MD
    “The term “Firearm” means: Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; The frame or receiver of any such weapon; Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or. Any destructive device.”



    The article specifies the buy build shoot kit.


    So polymer80 were marketing a product that contains all the parts necessary to be “readily be converted to”

    Not saying I agree with it, but that is probably the angle they are attacking from.
     

    1841DNG

    Ultimate Member
    Apr 17, 2016
    1,143
    People overestimate the amount of authority that an elected official has over the regulatory agencies. It is harder to fire all the bureaucrat than it should be and they outlast those elected job wise. The presidency is become more and more vestigial in many ways, not that it does not still matter. The next president to care about liberty needs to focus on peacefully dismantling these agencies even if it means full pensions for life and happy retirements imho. This is getting out of hand. And sure you can maybe replace the heads of the agency but there is a lot of union to get through in order to fire subordinate staff which dominate these agencies.
     

    Doctor_M

    Certified Mad Scientist
    MDS Supporter
    “The term “Firearm” means: Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; The frame or receiver of any such weapon; Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or. Any destructive device.”



    The article specifies the buy build shoot kit.


    So polymer80 were marketing a product that contains all the parts necessary to be “readily be converted to”

    Not saying I agree with it, but that is probably the angle they are attacking from.

    I believe that the starter pistol interpretation is specific to MD, not federal law.
     

    Markpixs

    Active Member
    Apr 23, 2011
    190
    NOVA
    This above... Anyone remember Bump=stocks.. Trump is a situational 2a backer. When it helps Trump, he is for the 2a and when there is little to no benefit for Trump, not so much.:sad20:

    Have to agree and he feels he has that support either way. Most pro-2A are pro-Trump, already in the bag for him and no need to toss'em a bone. The GOP just keep citing all the 'gun bans' President Obama and the Dems enacted before Trump was elected and convince them he's the answer.
     
    The ATF is saying P80's kits which are an 80% frame and a complete parts kit in a single box constitute a handgun under 922a29:

    (29)The term “handgun” means—
    (A)a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand; and
    (B)any combination of parts from which a firearm described in subparagraph (A) can be assembled.

    If ATF's interpretation stands, P80 owes taxes for every such 80% + complete parts kit sold.

    I don't think that's what they are going after but it's conceivable you are correct. But the article said they were selling firearms without paper, background checks or through an FFL. None of those are required if it's a box of gun parts and an incomplete frame. And if this constitutes a firearm then there are many companies selling the same way. I bought my G20 as a kit from JSD
     

    Fox123

    Ultimate Member
    May 21, 2012
    3,926
    Rosedale, MD
    I don't think that's what they are going after but it's conceivable you are correct. But the article said they were selling firearms without paper, background checks or through an FFL. None of those are required if it's a box of gun parts and an incomplete frame. And if this constitutes a firearm then there are many companies selling the same way. I bought my G20 as a kit from JSD

    The ATF see’s the marketing from polymer80, “buy build shoot.”

    The atf is using polymer80’s own marketing to match the definition of a firearm.


    Doesn’t mean it will necessarily stand up in court. However, it will have the chilling effect on the rest of the industry, and it will destroy polymer80 while they are busy defending themselves.
     

    cantstop

    Pentultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Aug 10, 2012
    8,161
    MD
    Brownells has a couple of Polymer80 80% pistol paperweights in stock. Off colors like Coyote and FDE.
     

    Allen65

    Ultimate Member
    MDS Supporter
    Jun 29, 2013
    7,063
    Anne Arundel County
    I don't think that's what they are going after but it's conceivable you are correct. But the article said they were selling firearms without paper, background checks or through an FFL. None of those are required if it's a box of gun parts and an incomplete frame. And if this constitutes a firearm then there are many companies selling the same way. I bought my G20 as a kit from JSD

    I doubt ATF's interpretation will stand up in court. 922.a.29.B means that all the complete parts must be present to assemble a firearm. With an incomplete frame the firearm can't simply be assembled, it must be manufactured. But it's going to cost a lot in legal fees to split that hair, and it'll chill the whole 80% industry because it means ATF is actively targeting them now.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    I doubt ATF's interpretation will stand up in court. 922.a.29.B means that all the complete parts must be present to assemble a firearm. With an incomplete frame the firearm can't simply be assembled, it must be manufactured. But it's going to cost a lot in legal fees to split that hair, and it'll chill the whole 80% industry because it means ATF is actively targeting them now.

    They are claiming because you can perform the machining steps in less than half an hour (it took an ATF agent 2hrs though :lol2:) that it is "readily convertible".

    Which I call BS. Does that take a ton of time? No, but that isn't a ready conversion. A ready conversion would be something like installing a firing pin. Pretty sure a court is damned likely to find that if you have to MACHINE the thing, it isn't a ready conversion. If it is, a block of aluminum is a firearm, because it doesn't take long for me to pop it in to a CnC machine and get out a frame or lower.
     

    lazarus

    Ultimate Member
    Jun 23, 2015
    13,678
    “The term “Firearm” means: Any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; The frame or receiver of any such weapon; Any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or. Any destructive device.”



    The article specifies the buy build shoot kit.


    So polymer80 were marketing a product that contains all the parts necessary to be “readily be converted to”

    Not saying I agree with it, but that is probably the angle they are attacking from.

    That's my guess to, and at the point you are talking build kit you are ADVERTISING as basically ready to shoot, you are playing stupid games with the ATF and we all know how well that works.

    Lots of legal fees if you are lucky.

    But I still disagree that with machining required, and not a single step either, it isn't readily converted. I guess it'll end up being for a judge/jury to decide.
     

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