HiStandards
Active Member
An older gentleman in my gun club used to say, "We don't need Sarah Brady, we're our own worst enemies."
Eagle Arms Shows ban 80% receiver sales
- Thread starter csxt602
- Start date
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There is only one other transaction needed to complete a P80 and that is the slide. Everything can be bought with cash, and if gangs are doing this in bulk, it's no big deal to have several guys buy several P80's and another several to buy the slide kits, all with cash, and not be traceable unless they lay yes on them either purchasing or walking out of a show with them (like was reported at Morgantown).
Your comment about the banks reporting transactions assumes credit cards and not cash, which a majority of P80's are purchased with at shows (at least in my experience), and the same with the slide kits.
You are correct in that they are trying to figure out how to put this genie back in the bottle and arrests at Morgantown are a first attempt.
Makes you wonder what the four people arrested at the Morgantown show were charged with? I know a felon is prohibited from possessing a firearm, are they also prohibited from owning firearm parts?
Bullfrog
Ultimate Member
They obtained warrants based on the suspects' criminal histories and their purchase of 80% kits, assuming (correctly as it turns out) they would find completed kits. The searches seem to have been carried out 3-5 days after the buys... so apparently it took them a little more than 5 minutes with a drill.
This article describing the arrests was linked from the article posted earlier about the promoter banning the kits.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as soon as you drill the first hole and go beyond 80%, it is legally a firearm, so if you're a felon you're toast, even if the work isn't complete. Also, they had a good chance of finding ammo (and they did), which is also a no-no for a felon.
Like I said before, it sounds like the system worked... so what is the motivation for the ban other than preventing NON-criminals from buying them?
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Tungsten
Ultimate Member
I would imagine constructive intent starts to apply when you are buying slides, barrels, holsters, ammo etc while being a felon.
I don't want the feds banning things or interpreting laws as they see fit. I want them to actually arrest and incarcerate violent felons so we don't even need to have this conversation. Unfortunately all this social justice BS is allowing prosecutors and judge to completely fail at keeping the public safe. So instead we get these stupid laws that do nothing but restrict our rights.
Bullfrog
Ultimate Member
No need to come up with anything as complex as constructive intent. Ammo possession by a felon is a crime by itself.
Also, as I mentioned previously, they found completed firearms.
They obtained warrants based on the suspects' criminal histories and their purchase of 90% kits, assuming (correctly as it turns out) they would find completed kits. The searches seem to have been carried out 3-5 days after the buys... so apparently it took them a little more than 5 minutes with a drill.
This article describing the arrests was linked from the article posted earlier about the promoter banning the kits.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as soon as you drill the first hole and go beyond 80%, it is legally a firearm, so if you're a felon you're toast, even if the work isn't complete. Also, they had a good chance of finding ammo (and they did), which is also a no-no for a felon.
Like I said before, it sounds like the system worked... so what is the motivation for the ban other than preventing NON-criminals from buying them?
Yep, first drill hole makes it 81% and a firearm, and toast.
warmachine
... AS LONG AS THEY FEAR
Just one piece at a time.
I'm just going to put this out there on several points,
Eagle arms isn't the first promoter to ban the sales of these at their shows...
There was a seizure by authorities of P80's in various states of completion by known felons (the kits were purchased at an Eagle Arms show)
You don't know what the AG threatened the promoter with, IE accessory before or after the fact on various crimes. So to all the people that say screw Eagle arms, try walking in his shoes on this one. It's a no win situation...
Eagle arms isn't the first promoter to ban the sales of these at their shows...
There was a seizure by authorities of P80's in various states of completion by known felons (the kits were purchased at an Eagle Arms show)
You don't know what the AG threatened the promoter with, IE accessory before or after the fact on various crimes. So to all the people that say screw Eagle arms, try walking in his shoes on this one. It's a no win situation...
The problem I have with this is that the seller did not sell a firearm and broke no laws. The buyer did not purchase a firearm either. If the buyer is prohibited, would only be breaking the law once the item became a firearm by legal definition. Where does it end? They need to stop blaming the item and the seller and go after the law breakers. Next thing will be muzzle loader kits will be banned.
Technically if you so much as mark where the hole goes.
That's interesting.
May I ask how you serialized them? Where did you obtain a serial number? How did you affix it to the rifle/receiver? Did you record the serial number with any organization or just your own private records?
Thanks.
No need to come up with anything as complex as constructive intent. Ammo possession by a felon is a crime by itself.
Also, as I mentioned previously, they found completed firearms.
This really sounds like existing laws are working just fine. Law enforcement just needs to learn to utilize existing laws to apprehend the criminals.
Bertfish
Throw bread on me
Prosecutors need to use existing law to put away criminals. Cops can arrest all they want but it's worthless if the lawyers let them out immediately.
Gordon
Ultimate Member
? The venders applauded him? If they were so concerned about selling ( 15 kits to one individual) then set a limit. I claim BS. Eagle buckled. Done with them
TapRackBang
Cheaper Than Diamonds
The promoter has already stated to one of our members that he was not threatened. I take people at their word. Call the promoter yourself and confirm it:
It's like something out of the movie "Demolition Man" when Dr. Cocteau released the worst criminals into the city to terrorize everyone into giving him complete power to remake society.
That could never happen in real life.
Magnumite
Ultimate Member
In the past some of our members stated they bought 10 80% kits. Should they have been refused? Not saying they should have been refused. These sales may be refused if the seller gets any vibes it is for dubious activity. I know at least one IP that does, watched it first personally. Watched ffls in the past do it. I am sure they near 100% do. I personally would do a NICS check for anyone I didn’t know or for larger quantity requests. The first 30 seconds after that mention would weed out 90% of the ill intentioned. Including one IP here on this site.
You can create your own serial number, there is no "firearms serial number authority".
Most people send them out to be engraved, on the AR platform there is plenty of realestate to put a serial number in the "regular location", some choose to put them in custom, not so obvious locations. On the P80 kits, they are coming with a plate affixed to the frame for those that want to have them engraved/stamped with a serial number. Other still, use other means of marking like electrostencilling.
There is no requirement (in Maryland or at the federal level) to register your serial number. Some states (california for example) require it by law, as well as obtaining the serial number from the state.
randomuser
Ultimate Member
So if you put the polymer80 in the frame built for drilling it out that would count?
It comes like that. I'd argue that if that were the case then they would be selling you an 81%+ firearm because the second the lower is in the jig it's essentially "marked" as you just have to then drill.
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